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Posts Tagged ‘Chris Pain’

What Excuse Will UKIP Use Next to Suspend Chris Pain?

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 11/09/2013

What Excuse Will UKIP Use Next to Suspend Chris Pain?
.

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
& Publicise My Blogs 
To Spread The Facts World Wide
of
&
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! 

.

The corruption of EUkip’s leadership, 
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC 

is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

What Excuse Will UKIP Leadership Use Next to Suspend Councillor Chris Pain, leader of UKIP on Lincolnshire County Councill?

.

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Hi,

itg is interesting to note that only aday or so after this website informed readers that C hris pain was no longer under investigation by the police with regard to racist comments on his facebook site that having been suspended whilst the investigation was underway he was now being suspended for an entirely different reason!

This does seem to add much credibility to the MP3 recording of the conversation between the resigned CEO of UKIP Will Gilpin & Chris Pain, the text of which was published on this blog CLICK HERE.

So it seems that UKIP’s leadership have changed their story and original excuse for suspending Chris Pain from his web comments to the later version, which endorses the MP3 comments of Will Gil;pin, and cites a fall out with Nigel Farage’s placeman Steve Crowther!

Can you imagine what a ghastly place britain would be to live in if UKIP ever gained real power – endless posturing and witch hunts as its various petty luminaries vied for attention and status on the gravy train, at the expense of democracy and morality and in denial of ethics and principles!

Little wonder so many of their more odious supporters are too ashamed to use their real names and hide behind anonimity and foolish names to peddle their filth, their racism, their anti homosexuality and their vile prejudices.

In fact although UKIP is more of a centralised cult than a party and Nigel Farage is their only perfgormer of any merit, as shown by his efforts in the EU Parliament where he sings most ably in return for his luxury seat on the gravy tyrain as shown by:
CLICK HERE and also HERE

It is unfortunate that so very very few ever watch or listen to Nigel Farage;s more competent speeches and it is clear that UKIP, for all its huff and puff is little more than a one man band when it comes to decision making the centralisation of authoritarian control and the delivery of anything passing for a competent speech.

Imagine how much UKIP could have achieved if it had put a fraction of its energy into silencing its odious and self serving staff and the claque who make such fools of themselves and the party on the internet so damagingly and had for the last 20 years concentrated on training a team of well informed spokesmen to show the benefits for Britain when we Leave-The-EU and seeking to show in every town, city and county council just how every item of consequential policy and expenditure and every petty fogging bit of regulation was a matter controlled without democratic imput of any meaningful degree in the centralised EU bureaucracy!

As it is, due to apauling leadership and a total lack of training, gravitas, a plan, strategy, tactics or even a clear Exit & Survival Strategy to Leave-The_EU – they have due to this a 20 year track record of abject failure in domestic politics and even now as they pander to the lowest common denominator of populism exploiting racism, immigration, xenophobia and anti homosexuality they have still failed to get anywhere near getting an MP elected and have a risible 140 or so elected Councillors out of some 8,000 available seats!

UKIP under its p[resent leadership and structure is beyond any doubt amongst the informed – UNFIT FOR PURPOSE to lead Britain to Leave-The-EU.

One performing monkey, performing mostly in obscurity clearly does little to Leave-The-EU without a competent organ grinder the organ itself lies trashed in the gutter as tyhe higher up the tree the monkey climbs the more you see its @rse – as has been shown by the welter of bad publicity the cult itself has received!

Lincolnshire UKIP councillor Chris Pain removed as group leader

Councillor Chris Pain
Chris Pain was elected to Lincolnshire County Council in May along with 15 other UKIP councillors

A councillor suspended by UKIP has been removed as leader of the party’s group on Lincolnshire County Council.

Chris Pain said he had been suspended from UKIP because of a “serious issue” between himself and national chairman Steve Crowther.

Nine of Lincolnshire’s UKIP councillors have now signed a letter to the county council’s chief executive saying Mr Pain has been removed from their group.

A national UKIP spokesman would not comment on why he had been suspended.

He said: “Chris Pain has been suspended under the emergency powers of the chairman of UKIP.

“It would be wrong and unfair to say anything more about the case before the committee has heard the evidence against Mr Pain and his defence.”

UKIP gained 16 seats on Lincolnshire County Council in May, causing the Conservatives to lose overall control and form a coalition with the Liberal Democrats and several Independents.

Racism allegations Mr Pain continues to be a councillor for Wainfleet and Burgh, and he told BBC Radio Lincolnshire “there is no way I would desert the voters”.

“I put a complaint against UKIP national chairman Steve Crowther which might be subject of legal action and I can’t discuss that any further at the moment,” he said.

“It’s just a serious issue between myself and Steve Crowther.”

Councillor Colin Mair, who represents Tattershall Castle, has been appointed acting UKIP leader in Lincolnshire.

Mr Pain was investigated by Lincolnshire Police for alleged racist remarks posted on Facebook, but police said on Monday no action would be taken against him.

Tony McArdle, chief executive of Lincolnshire County Council, said: “We have today received notification from a majority of the members of the UKIP group to the effect that Councillor Chris Pain is not now a member of that group and consequently not its leader.

“As from today, Councillor Colin Mair will be acting as leader of the UKIP group.”

To see the original article CLICK HERE
.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

 INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance

&
Work With THE MIDNIGHT GROUP to
Reclaim YOUR Future 
&
GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK
Deny the self serving political clique ANY Democratic claims to legitimacy
Write Upon Your Ballot Paper at EVERY election:
.
to Reclaim YOUR Future 
&
GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK

Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins

tel: 01594 – 528 337
Accuracy & Copyright Statement: CLICK HERE
Summary, archive, facts & comments on UKIP: http://UKIP-vs-EUkip.com
DO MAKE USE of LINKS & >Right Side Bar< & The Top Bar >PAGES<
Also:
Details & Links: http://GregLanceWatkins.Blogspot.com
UKIP Its ASSOCIATES & DETAILS: CLICK HERE
Views I almost Totally Share: CLICK HERE
General Stuff archive: http://gl-w.blogspot.com
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 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
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Posted in UKIP | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

Keeping Up With The UKIP Ferrets & The Sack!

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 10/09/2013

Keeping Up With The UKIP Ferrets & The Sack!
.

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
& Publicise My Blogs 
To Spread The Facts World Wide
of
&
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! 

.

The corruption of EUkip’s leadership, 
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC 

is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

Keeping Up With The UKIP Ferrets & The Farage Sack!!!

.

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From: mike nattrass [mailto:ukipmep@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: 10 September 2013 09:42
Subject: FW: Chris PainSorry everyone,

Now we have Total Totalitarianism in UKIP.
TWO NEC MEMBERS THROWN OUT BY STEVE CROWTHER

Already Doug Denny has been thrown out of the NEC by Steve Crowther because he told the truth about the Gerrymandering of the selection process and flagged up at least 4 UKIP rules which were broken to distort the selection process …. but the UKIP Constitution (which I opposed) allows for “retrospective voting” so there can be no court challenge…… unless you like nailing jelly to the ceiling….. Yes I tried!

Here (see below) we have the next NEC member who refuses to stay silent. There are more keeping their heads down and away from Nigels hit squad ..Crowther/Reeve/Fairweather.

Why do we elect NEC members?….. to be threatened by Crowther/Farage or to represent member’s concerns?

You are being told how to vote for MEP candidates by a system that excludes any distraction away from “The Chosen Ones” … the ones who comply without question. Totally excluding in all regions those who have worked hardest for this party.

Kindly and well respected member Alan Sheath a long time UKIP member and over 80 wanted to make his point at the conference in Telford, he asked permission to hand out information, and was threatened by Jill Seymour with the police! (you can see the emails)

I suggest you look further down your voting list of candidates …e.g. Michael Wrench who has done so much work for UKIP, he has a good heart and gets little credit because he is loyal to freedom of thought. Those who submit to one man’s domination are clearly listed at the top of the papers, they are cronies and cronies of cronies.

If you read what Crowther says in the magazine it means he could have saved most candidates the £500… because he already knew who he would choose.

I will be making a more comprehensive report of the hidden issues, bullying and fiddles made in the name of UKIP later.

Obviously I will be standing at the 2014 MEP elections ….. but I am barred by Crowther/Farage from standing for UKIP to defend my own seat.
Yet the UKIP members did not vote against me.

Mike

MIKE NATTRASS MEP

PS I realise that Nigel is the best speaker and a fantastic front man a fantantist performer but not a Leader. I support UKIP policy and as a previous Party Chairman, Deputy Leader and Transport Spokesman I have made some of it. I will however not see UKIP ruined by Totalitarianism, without speaking up…….we beleave in the votes of members, freedom to speak our minds and democracy … the obvious facts now point in a different bullying direction.

WHO INTERVIEWED me? CROWTHER (employee of a fellow candidate) CASSIDY (aged 22 who reports to Crowther as a UKIP employee) and FAIRWEATHER (Nigel’s person and new NEC member) Oh by the way, the NEC thought they agreed that employees would not be interviewing… but we can soon fix that!


Subject: Fwd: Chris Pain
From: chris.ukip@icloud.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:21:19 +0100
To: alanbown@btinternet.com
Dear NEC members,
I have just received this email after having sent a comprehensive letter covering all of the aspects of my issue earlier today. My deputy leader on the council, was informed by Pete Reeves that I had been thrown out of the party and he was to take over. Has my case been reviewed since my email was sent and a different decision taken.
As this will cause serious damage to our party locally and more importantly effect our vote at the ballot box, can you all please address this as a matter of urgency.
Regards,
Chris Pain
Councillor Chris Pain
Lincolnshire County Council
UKIP Group Leader & Leader of the Opposition
07771 980477 or 07876 505055
cllrc.pain@lincolnshire.gov.uk
chris.ukip@btinternet.com
www.chrispain.com


From: Steve Crowther <sjcrowther@btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:53:34 +0100
To: Victoria Ayling<victoria.ayling@gmail.com>; Paul Oakden<pauloakden@aol.com>; Peter Reeve<reeve@ukip.org>; Robin Hunter-Clarke<robinhunter-clarke@live.co.uk>; Don Ransome<ukip@dransome.plus.com>
Cc: Gawain Towler<gawain@gmail.com>; Alexandra Phillips<a.phillips@ukip.org>
Subject: Chris Pain

Dear All

I can confirm that Chris Pain has been suspended from membership of UKIP, for two months, as of Friday 6 September, under the UKIP Constitution clause 11.9. The suspension will be confirmed or rescinded at an emergency disciplinary hearing now being arranged by the Party Secretary.

Regards, Steve

Stephen Crowther, Chairman, UK Independence Party
Eastacombe House, Heanton, Barnstaple, N. Devon EX31 4DG
Phone 01271 813844 Mobile 07775 787579

The contents of this email are confidential

.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

 INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance

&
Work With THE MIDNIGHT GROUP to
Reclaim YOUR Future 
&
GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK
Deny the self serving political clique ANY Democratic claims to legitimacy
Write Upon Your Ballot Paper at EVERY election:
.
to Reclaim YOUR Future 
&
GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK

Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins

tel: 01594 – 528 337
Accuracy & Copyright Statement: CLICK HERE
Summary, archive, facts & comments on UKIP: http://UKIP-vs-EUkip.com
DO MAKE USE of LINKS & >Right Side Bar< & The Top Bar >PAGES<
Also:
Details & Links: http://GregLanceWatkins.Blogspot.com
UKIP Its ASSOCIATES & DETAILS: CLICK HERE
Views I almost Totally Share: CLICK HERE
General Stuff archive: http://gl-w.blogspot.com
General Stuff ongoing: http://gl-w.com
Health Blog.: http://GregLW.blogspot.com
TWITTER: Greg_LW

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
& Publicise My Blogs 
To Spread The Facts World Wide
of
OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN

&

To Leave-The-EU
 

Posted in UKIP | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

Chris Pain Cleared by Police, what now for UKIP?

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 10/09/2013

Chris Pain Cleared by Police, what now for UKIP?
.

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
& Publicise My Blogs 
To Spread The Facts World Wide
of
&
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! 

.

The corruption of EUkip’s leadership
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC 

is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

Chris Pain Cleared by Police of racism, what now for UKIP and particularly the centralised power of their risible claims to be Libertarian? This should leave Steve Crowther & Nigel Farage in some embarrassment at their rapid willingness to exploit the situation to suit their own ends!!

.

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Hi,

in the light of the MP3 phone recording of facts relative to UKIP leadership’s actions in blocking & barring Chris Pain, as reported on this web log, this police outcome would seem to leave UKIP leadership in some difficulty particularly Steve Crowther and his puppet master Nigel Farage.

This exacerbates the very real cause for embarrassment surrounding the rigging of selection processes!

Police to take ‘no further action’ over UKIP racism allegations

Chris Pain

Chris Pain

Lincolnshire Police say there will be ‘no further action’ taken against members of UKIP that were accused of making racist posts on the internet.

Officers have been carrying out investigations in the past few months into members of UKIP, including county leader Chris Pain.

The allegations included complaints that they posted comments, including those of a racist nature, on to social media sites, such as Facebook, and ‘caused or reinforced racial hatred’.

Coun Pain won the Wainfleet and Burgh ward at May’s Lincolnshire County Council elections and leads the UKIP opposition group. He will stand to try to become Boston and Skegness MP at the 2015 General Election.

He and Boston North councillor Tiggs Keywood-Wainwright were accused by campaign group Hope Not Hate of posting ‘racist rants’.

Although the investigation largely centred on alleged posts made by Coun Pain, The Standard understands material from Coun Keywood-Wainwright – who won a by-election in Fenside last week – was also looked at.

A senior detective has reviewed the evidence and decided that no further action will be taken by police against either Mr Pain or the other UKIP members accused.

A spokesman said: “Lincolnshire Police take all allegations of hate crime extremely seriously and, where appropriate, will refer these matters to the Crown Prosecution Service, who, in our experience, take an equally serious stance.

“Police are reliant on there being a sufficient amount of evidence, of a quality which would support a decision to prosecute anyone suspected of carrying out crimes of this nature.

“When dealing with internet based activity there has to be an audit trail which enables us to prove the person who is suspected of displaying information on the Web is actually the person pressing the computer keys.

“There are many factors which make such an investigation very complex. Officers must work with the powers granted under specific legislation and, where the servers and the administration of the sites falls outside the United Kingdom, the police and other enforcement agencies are often unable to obtain the relevant information needed to prove who placed comments or information on one of the sites. This is particularly the case with the main social media sites, such as Twitter and Facebook.

“In the world of increasingly technical equipment and expertise, it is always possible for false profiles to be created and information to be posted on a user’s account without their knowledge.

“In such cases, it is very difficult for police to trace the origins of the information and to be sufficiently certaint that the person alleged to be displaying some comment or information actually did so.”

Lincolnshire Police DI Andy Wardell said: “This problem is exacerbated when the social network account is closed by an individual who has either become aware or is directly made aware by someone that comments have been seen and the informant is going to contact the police.

“Fictional police and CSI shows often depict investigations where information in cyber space can be traced instantly but the reality is very different.

“Therefore, if any person discovers information displayed or comments posted to social networking sites which they feel are racist ,or made with the intent of stirring up racism, they should inform the police immediately and not post responses or enter into dialect with the individual believed to have made such racist comments.

“Doing so will inevitably result in the comments being removed and the account closed making it impossible to achieve a satisfactory result with any investigation.”

To view the original article CLICK HERE
.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

 INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance

&
Work With THE MIDNIGHT GROUP to
Reclaim YOUR Future 
&
GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK
Deny the self serving political clique ANY Democratic claims to legitimacy
Write Upon Your Ballot Paper at EVERY election:
.
to Reclaim YOUR Future 
&
GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK

Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins

tel: 01594 – 528 337
Accuracy & Copyright Statement: CLICK HERE
Summary, archive, facts & comments on UKIP: http://UKIP-vs-EUkip.com
DO MAKE USE of LINKS & >Right Side Bar< & The Top Bar >PAGES<
Also:
Details & Links: http://GregLanceWatkins.Blogspot.com
UKIP Its ASSOCIATES & DETAILS: CLICK HERE
Views I almost Totally Share: CLICK HERE
General Stuff archive: http://gl-w.blogspot.com
General Stuff ongoing: http://gl-w.com
Health Blog.: http://GregLW.blogspot.com
TWITTER: Greg_LW

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
& Publicise My Blogs 
To Spread The Facts World Wide
of
OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN

&

To Leave-The-EU
 

Posted in UKIP | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

UKIP Needs A Bigger Sack For Its Squabbling Ferrets!

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 03/09/2013

UKIP Needs A Bigger Sack For Its Squabbling Ferrets!
.

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
& Publicise My Blogs 
To Spread The Facts World Wide
of
&
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! 

.

The corruption of EUkip’s leadership, 
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC 

is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

UKIP Needs A Bigger Sack For Its Squabbling Ferrets! Thgis time it is the then CEO of UKIP who shows his contempt for the infighting and self promotion within UKIP and Chris Pain rernouncing the corruption in the party!!

.

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From: Greg Lance-Watkins (Greg_L-W)

At: Greg_L-W@BTconnect.com

Hi,

You may be interested in the eMail below and the relevant attachments.

So that I keep lines of communication open please acknowledge source as

http://UKIP-vs-EUkip.com

If you choose to use it or forward it.

 

It will be on my web site later today, when I have time.

Do note that I have a copy of the MP3, which is very clear and as per the transcription I have supplied – sorry my tecNoSkills are not up to posting a copy on this web site and as it may aid in disclosing my sources I have made no effort to upload the item.

ALSO you will be amused to note that I reminded people that today was UKIP’s 20th. Anniversary of foundation in 1993, earlier this morning.

I get the impression it was a good thing I did as it seems to have reminded UKIP, who published the fact at about 15:40hrs.!

Thanks.

Regards,

Greg_L-W.

PS. Sorry about the delay in posting this but at 14:30hrs. today my Aunt died, so I have been a little preoccupied!

G.L-W.

http://GregLanceWatkins.com

http://GregLanceWatkins.com/my-other-blogs-etc

http://GregLW.com

http://GL-W.com

http://GLWdocuments.wordpress.com

 

http://Leave-The-EU.org.uk

http://HollieGreigetc.wordpress.com

http://ChristopherStory.org 

http://UKIP-vs-EUkip.com

TWITTER: @Greg_LW

Skype: gregl-w

 

PLEASE NOTE:
I never post anonymously on the internet.

For details on accuracy please see:

https://ukip-vs-eukip.com/ensuring-accuracy-the-truth

 


Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 10:36:12 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Conversation re Steve Crowther’s actions to take Cllr chris Pain out of UKIP

 

The conversation attached below, is between ex UKIP CEO Will Gilpin and Chris Pain, re Steve Crowther’s actions to take hard working, long standing, UKIP activist Cllr Chris Pain out of UKIP.

This relates to late 2012 / 2013, before any of the fake face book posts were posted late May and raises the issue of the total handling of the situation by UKIP. The full conversation would have a serious effect on UKIP and this is not the intention, so the parts are only attached that have a direct impact on the handling of Chris Pain.

 

 

This raises the issue that Chris Pain has not been handled fairly by the party.

 

 

Questions were asked re the issue that Steve Crowther had apparently picked the final MEP lists, rather than them being selected as a result of merit on the selection process.

 

 

This has been highlighted by Doug Denny, who has been thrown off the NEC, because he was trying to correct what he believes to be a floored (sic) process.

 

 

The response was that the only way of challenging the process, was via the courts and not through the party or the NEC.

 

 

This is not democratic or fair as stated in the UKIP constitution in how we should act as a party.

 

 

The main problem is the defamation of character against Chris Pain, which has not been addressed.

 

 

Apologies for the rough transcript, but it was done from 2am until 5am in the morning.

 

 

Written Words of Recording Re Telephone Conversation with Will Gilpin

Chris Can I ask you a straight question which is involving me, yes, did Steve Crowther have any involvement, on my side, when it came in front of the NEC.

Will   When it came to your three months suspension?

ChrisNo No before that.

Will   What did you mean

Chris Did Steve have any conversations with you or separately

Will   I’ll give you the honest answer I can’t remember the details, but I was well aware that Steve had lots of antipathy towards you, and made it very clear he would like to get you out of the party, and would do whatever he could to achieve that.

Chris that ties in with what somebody else has said.

Will Okay yes

Chris Somebody else quite high up has said exactly the same

Will   Yes, when you arranged your conference and invited me and Kate to speak at it or me to speak at it and I turned you down, because Steve gave me a direct order, that I wasn’t to attend or have anything to do with you, and giving that he was paying my pay cheque I went along with it.

Chris That’s obvious and unbelievable

Will   Just because his argument to me was that the conference was project designed to get you elected, and he didn’t want to get you elected,  we had to do our best not to support it.

Chris That explains on my lead through Lisa and everybody cancelled on the Sunday as well, because they cancelled on the Sunday and we were doing the Sunday training for people and they cancelled, they got the same…

Will   I imagine so I am not aware, but I am sure Steve I didn’t really know him that well, but I had done a couple of bits with him and I liked him, and because he thought that I liked him he could get me to do what he wanted. You know, it has taken me quite a while to realise that, I still haven’t quite figured him out

Chris But to be honest with you how can I say it

Will   I know he doesn’t like Nigel, but on the other hand this is his carer isn’t it

Chris You say he doesn’t like Nigel but

Will   He doesn’t like him, But he knows Nigel is his paymaster, his gravy train

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

ChrisMore than understanding it he kept going on the same tact that it didn’t matter that they weren’t on your site. I said well of course it does because that’s what people think it is on my facebook site

Will   yeh yeh yeh you were dammed if you did and dammed if you didn’t in fact weren’t you cos if you had admitted they were on your site he would have had you for that, and if you said they weren’t he would have accused you of lying, so

ChrisBut the downside is he knows the fact they weren’t there, he knew they weren’t there afterwards, I actually gave him the proof and sent it to him directly and showed him where they were, and I didn’t get that until the I approached the news editor who sent it through to me. I didn’t know what open part, because I’d been told by somebody else he was using it to take me purposely out of the MEP position, and take me out of the party, which coincides with what you said

Will   Yes I know that is something he wanted to do, I can’t tell you is there was any specific plan, other than he just saw this opportunity and thought, it looked good, you know

Chrishow long  .. has he ever said why he wanted me out of the party? Has he ever drop that reason out or, is it down to Nigel or what,

Will   yes probably down to Nigel probably because you are pushy and Nigel doesn’t like anyone pushy, that might go for the leadership at some point

Christhat’s ridiculous

…………………………………………………………………………………

Will   Steve and Nigel think you are getting too big for your boots, building a power base for yourself, they only want one power base in the party, in other parties there would be lots of power basis

………………………………………………………………………………….

Will   Steve saw his opportunity he got me to get somebody to have a look at your site and obviously it was their report that was read out, you  know, I am not going to tell you who they are obviously because they are still in the party, I don’t think they particularly had a part dropping, they were just doing what they were told

Chris obviously portrayed it in a way, just by him getting you to say all the stuff had been deleted,

Will   yes

Chriswhen he knew the fact that it wasn’t on there in the first place

Will   yes yes

ChrisAlthough is sounds damming in front of the NEC, and in front of disciplinary proceedings he wouldn’t have got away with that, I would have had witnesses and evidence and gone through it bit by bit.

Will   Yes

Chris  it was like everything he threw at me at that meeting, from about the rally in Boston, which he knew about, which had been passed by Paul, and the motion that he told me to do exactly what I did do, and he knows he told me exactly what to do and Piers said the same and to throw all these things in, it was obviously bazaar, I should have had a disciplinary action where I would have got seven days notice where I could have took each bits of evidence in with me, to go through them

Will   which is what Piers said isn’t it

Chris obviously he didn’t want that, because he thought he could con people as a full NEC and twist the facts marginally enough to hit me with other stuff to get it passed

……………………………………………………………………………………

Will   it was gerimanded

Chriswithout a doubt

Will   why they excluded me from the process of course

Chris  yes the thing is it is quite obvious, Steve has done it from day 1 the whole process, pushed it rammed it through, made sure he was showing the subcommittee no minutes from the subcommittee tour at all, which to be fair is not unprofessional it is crooked

Will   yes

Chris  and then actually pushed it forward even further to leave selectors where people are, without the NEC passing a mandate about how people should be  point  scored    and these always through

Will   it’s a win win, either we’re sent the list they’ve given or we reject the entire process at which point Nigel operates the list,

Chris  it would probably be a bit fairer

Will   at lease its know

Chris  I look at what they have done so far, although I don’t agree with that, at least it would save a lot of people time energy and effort in the party

Will   and money

Chrisand money, and a lease it would be straight forward and say that’s Nigels choice and that’s it

Will   yeh yes

Chris  all Steve’s done is pushed it through regardless

Will   well that was the final straw for  me in terms of my enthusiasm for the  post

Chris what you doing now then

Will   nothing I am on holiday for a week and then gonna start working out what to do.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

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tel: 01594 – 528 337
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The Ferrets in The UKIP Sack Nattrass, Pain etc.

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 31/08/2013

The Ferrets in The UKIP Sack Nattrass, Pain etc.T
.

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Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! 

.

The corruption of EUkip’s leadership, 
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC 

is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

The Ferrets in The UKIP Sack, or at least squabbling for preferment, Mike Nattrass, Chris Pain etc.!!

.

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
.
Hi,
my only reservation with this all but standard UKIP style correspondence is the percentage which is supposedly anonymous.Like most honourable individuals I yhave little but contempt for people too ashamed of their actions to put their names to it!

—–Original Message—–
From: mike nattrass <mikenattrass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 10:09
Subject: FW: Emailing: STAND UP AND BE COUNTED – RE BAD UKIP MEP SELECTIONS

This is being passed round in the East Midlands.

They are now going nuts in EAST MIDLANDS because they think the MEP LIST IS
A PROCESS RIGGED FROM TOP TO BOTTOM BY TWO PEOPLE nominated by Farage.

Open the attachment.

Mike


Subject: Fwd: Emailing: STAND UP AND BE COUNTED – RE BAD UKIP MEP SELECTIONS
From: chris.ukip@btinternet.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:27:23 +0100

I have just had this email sent over to me from Derbyshire. It is apparently doing the rounds in the East Mids.

Regards,

Chris

I am totally shocked that my two local UKIP members from Derbyshire David Gale one of the best police commissioner results for UKIP, and Phillip Rose secretary of the east midlands counties committee, have not made the list to be voted on for the MEP selections.  as these are two hard working local activists, the fact that they have not made the final cut is dubious to say the least.

 

Several of the areas are being represented in the MEP selection process by people they do not want. All our candidates have come from two counties so we have no representation from Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Lincolnshire, Rutland.  This will impact on our vote at the ballot box. The down side of this is that instead of having four MEP’s in the next elections, we will probably only have one. It has been apparent that the list has been picked by Steve Crowther, Party Chairman, raising doubts about his suitability as future chairman of the party.

 

In the east midlands these are the candidates we have been given are as follows:-

 

Barry Mahoney ~ this man has never done anything in or for the region in the last eight years. He did not campaign in the last European election at all, and was not re voted onto the east midlands committee because of his lack of attendance at meetings.

 

Roger Helmer ~ came over from the conservatives, supposed to be retiring through ill health.  He has not been to an East Midlands regional meeting yet even though he has been in the party a year and a half.  He has not contributed financially to the region either.

 

Margot Parker ~ stood against UKIP at the last European elections. She stood in Corby in the by-election which is a plus point for her.  Unfortunately she did not bother to stand for UKIP in a previous council by-election a few months before leaving the seat uncontested.  She also left the general election seat uncontested at the last general elections. Her profession is advising people how to get around EU law, so if she obtains the post of MEP we will be adding to her job CV and she will not be inclined to push forward for the UK to leave the EU.

 

Jonathan Bullock ~ has only been in the party 9 months, he should not be eligible to stand as the criteria is you have to be in the party 12 months.

 

Nigel Wickens ~ nobody knows who Nigel Wickens is.

 

The above does not make good reading for anybody in the party that wants to move forward. I thought the national selection process was a good idea and although, I was not in UKIP during the last European elections these results seem to suggest that the regions selection process was a far better process last time. The fact that concludes my thoughts is that Lincolnshire activist, Christopher Pain, has not made the list.  He has worked hard for the party for years attained the positions of Branch Chairman, Counties Chairman, East Midlands Chairman, NEC member, County Councillor, organised conferences and had some of the best election results for the party.

 

We then have to look at Mike Nattrass MEP being told he was not worthy for selection in the West Midlands makes a mockery of the all system. He has been one of the most hard working MEP’s, after Nigel Farage, in the whole party.  He has worked tirelessly and donating hundreds of thousands of pounds to the party.

 

Neil Hamilton has been deemed unworthy to stand for selection in the South West, but his silence has been bought by a high luxury job in the party.

 

All three of the following are not in the top 10, but 6 people who are not known in the area are above them, why?

 

In the south east Steve Harris their regional organiser was number 3 candidate on the last MEP list.

 

Andrew Montclies ex NEC member and policy writer for UKIP

 

Piers Wauchop NEC member long standing with 8 years plus as a County Councillor, a hard working kingpin in the south east.

 

In London Paul Oakley is top of the list an unknown character not been a hard working activist for UKIP, yet he has been deemed to be a higher calibre than MEP Gerard Batten.

 

Then we look slightly further afield Jonathan Arnott has been placed number 1 on the list in the North East.  This has dismayed local activists as they have never seen Jonathan Arnott in the region at all, people do not know who he is.

 

David Coburn has been placed number 1 in Scotland the information coming from Scotland is that he has not been there for 30 plus years.

 

These are just a few examples of the bazaar selection process that appears to be riddled with corruption from UKIP.

 

I joined UKIP because I thought they were the party of the people and as an activist I am absolutely distraught at the way many good candidates across the country have been treated and bypassed.

 

I am enclosing the email addresses of all the NEC members and if you agree that the selection of candidates is wrong, please email them and tell them.  If not I am sorry for bothering you, but a big injustice has been done here by our leaders, they are telling you who they want on the selection vote as MEP, not who we want.  What will happen at the next general election if we don’t stand up now and be counted?

 

Fellow activists and I have decided that if this injustice is not addressed we will not be actively campaigning or donating to the European elections at all.  I believed UKIP to be a democratic party yet it appears we are taking on the habits of the EU which I despise strongly

 

Alan Bown  alanbown@btinternet.com

Bours Loise  louisebours@yahoo.co.uk

Chris Pain   chris.ukip@btinternet.com

David Coburn   ClanCoburn@hotmail.co.uk

George Curtis  gscurtis@aspects.net

Gerard Batten  gerard.batten@btinternet.com

Godfrey Bloom  gbloom@ukip.org

Hugh Williams  ughmwilliams@tiscali.co.uk

Jonathan Arnott  vote.jonathan@googlemail.com

Michael Greaves  michael.greaves@gmail.com

Michael Mcgough  michael.mcgough@lineone.net

Neil Hamilton   neilhamilton49@rocketmail.com

Paul Nuttall   ukipbootle@yahoo.co.uk

Piers Wauchop  wauchope@hotmail.co.uk

Rod Peers   mepselection@ukip.org

S. J. Crowther  sjcrowther@btinternet.com

Sebastian Fairweather   sebastian.fairweather@ccc.ox.ac.uk

Steven Woolfe  steven.woolfe@ukip.org

Stuart Wheeler  stuartwheeler@chilham-castle.co.uk

 

Regards

A Once Dedicated UKIP Activist

Clearly too gutless to validate their poison pen with the addition of their name, though it seems all too clear who the dweeb who authored this is!Since virtually all appointments within UKIP are orchestrated by one man, internal selections and elections have regularly been rigged and fiddled it is interesrting to note that people like Mike Nattrass who was a main mover in the corruption only speak out when they personally fall foul of the system they helped set up and support!

It does give a measure of the caliber of the trash that form the bulk of UKIP’s hierarchy. Clearly without honour, integrity or basic decency just as with the low lifes who turn a blind eye to the corruption when it works for their gain like Andrew Smith, Gerard Batten, Mick McGough and the anonymised cowards with their lies and unpleasant efforts to defame true supporters of UKIP who seek to clean it up to make it fit for purpose ratheer than fit for personal gain!

.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

 INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance

&
Work With THE MIDNIGHT GROUP to
Reclaim YOUR Future 
&
GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK
Deny the self serving political clique ANY Democratic claims to legitimacy
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.
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GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK

Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins

tel: 01594 – 528 337
Accuracy & Copyright Statement: CLICK HERE
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Theft, Racism & other UKIP behaviour causes resignations

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 12/06/2013

Theft, Racism & other UKIP behaviour causes resignations
.

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is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

Theft, Racism & other UKIP behaviour causes resignations! Chris Pain resigns but lingers on but Peter Georgiou understands his position and quits!

.

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
.
Hi,

it is interesting to note that UKIP Councillor Peter Georgiou, Norfolk County Councillor for Thetford West, is resigning having been found to have been caught stealing from a shop yet the UKIP Councillor for Lydney in Gloucestershire considers it appropriate to remain in office having similarly having been reported to have stolen from a shop!

On the other hand Chris Pain does not believe he is fit to act as chairman of his local EU Regional UKIP committee yet believes it appropriate to stay in his paid role as the elected representative on the council, which I find strange, in the light of the allegations of racism that seem of some substance and have been dealt with in some detail already on this blog.

Further we are given to understand that despite his strange behaviour on public Forums and other allegations against him in the public domain, by UKIP members, he believes it is not only acceptable to remain on UKIP NEC but also expects Nigel Farage to nominate/select him as a potential MEP candidate on the lists he will personally draw up in cahoots with his direct cronies! In accord with the centralised and authoritarian powers of UKIP – a far from democratic or libertarian construct!

Little winder that UKIP support amongst the electorate has collapsed by 1/3rd. from its far from consequential recent high when of over 1,700 candidates fielded they achieved a far from impressive failure with only 147 elected – several of whom have, like Peter Georgiou have already quit for theft , racism or inappropriate behaviour!

That Neil Hamilton, who recently featured for his sleaze and dishonesty on Panorama is a leading candidate for a UKIP MEP seat and sits on UKIP NEC there is every reason to have expected some fall back in popularity as the facts became more widespread about UKIP’s clear inappropriate behaviour and also their support and involvement in racism and anti homosexuality with its EU partners in The Pan EU EFD Political Group which includes extremists of the most revolting nature!

As I have often pointed out: ‘The higher up the tree the monkey climbs the more you see its Rs’ .

The more UKIP achieves the more it will meet with scruting and the more people will realise it has little or no role or relavance in domestic politics!

UKIP’s Chris Pain insists he will stand as MEP

The UKIP councillor embroiled in racism allegations has countered claims his party had barred him from standing as an MEP.

Lincolnshire County Council’s ward-holder for Burgh and Wainfleet, Coun Chris Pain, was previously believed to have been categorised as ‘not a member of good standing’ – barring him from representing the party in next year’s European election

However, Coun Pain insists the sanctions imposed on him by UKIP are merely a formality while he clears his name and says he has submitted an application to stand as an MEP.

“It’s a mystery where this came from,” Coun Pain said.

The party said last week that it was suspending judgement about Coun Pain’s future with the party pending the results of a police investigation. It has refused to comment on his ability to stand as an MEP or other sanctions supposedly brought against him.

Coun Pain was alleged to have made racist Facebook posts referring to immigrants as ‘bomb-making, camel-riding, goat-******* ragheads’ among other offensive terms.

He has vehemently denied the allegations, claiming his account was hacked in a malicious attack on him and his party.

However, Coun Pain has stood down from his role as the party’s East Midlands chairman pending the outcome of an investigation into the claims. Coun Pain says he has not yet been contacted by the police in respect to the allegations.

He fears the latest rumours were part of another attack against him.

To view the original article CLICK HERE.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

 INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance

&
Work With THE MIDNIGHT GROUP to
Reclaim YOUR Future 
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.
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tel: 01594 – 528 337
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Chris Pain & Crew In A Bit of a Stew!

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 28/05/2013

Chris Pain & Crew In A Bit of a Stew!TITLE
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The corruption of EUkip’s leadership
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is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

Chris Pain & Crew In A Bit of a Stew!
Newly elected UKIP Councillors Chris Pain, Alan Jesson &
Ms Keywood-Wainwright are already under investigation by Police!!

.

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
.
Hi,

it is hardly surprising that UKIP finds itself in this sort of muddle, due largely to totally inept leadership and a lack of any concept of serious training EVER being undertaken in the party’s 20 year history.

The blatant lack of strategy, tactics or even an outline plan, beyond ‘we must win more elections’ accounts for the continuous abject failure of UKIP in domestic elections.

That UKIP fielded over 1,700 candidates and only managed to get 147 elected and a number of them have had to resign already and now we have a further batch following their leaders examples and finding themselves under police investigation!

20 years of posturing mostly as a one man band propped up with public money syphoned off the tax payers by the odious and corrupt EU and still UKIP are little closer to having an MP elected and have not a single solitary noteworthy representative of any gravitas or stature.

20 years on and so much for the Leave-The-EU mantra they are no closer to having any sort of ‘Exit & Survival Strategy

I gather Lincolnshire is not the only region in disarray, in the Eastern Region they are openly working with the Tories regardless of the party policy and have all but given the bumptious Peter Reeves his marching orders on the basis of ‘who do you think you are, we are councillors too’!

With UKIP’s regional MEP in the East Middlands found guilty of defrauding the public purse and ordered to repay tens of £1,000s and the regional organiser a man of questionable talents and clearly not worth the income he admitted to during his trial as a drunk driver with it seems every family member he could muster climbing on the UKIP gravy train, regardless of competence or qualification, just to make up numbers for the money!

Then we have the leadership skills of UKIP in the Eastern Region to contend with where both the UKIP MEPs Stuart Agnew and David Bannerman are under investigation by OLAF for defrauding the public purse as they admitted on camera for The Sunday Times and liars and self serving scoundrels like Andrew Smith & Mick McGough manipulating & rigging UKIP selections for their personal gain as also did Jeffrey Titford & Stuart Gulleford before them.

In just what way can UKIP be seen as fit for purpose and what is that purpose beyond the enrichment of a small clique as they have failed abysmally to make their position clear and are thus seemingly little more than political prostitutes where Farage’s clique and its claque will prostitute them,selves to any values that gain  them cash or clout as shown by their association with the EDL and the EFD Group and their willing apparent incitement to racial hatred as most clerarly displayed, not by the likes of Chris Pain & his chums in Lincoln but by the vile writtings of Gerard Batten and before him Jeffrey Titford’s assistant Tony Bennett.

Just where does UKIP imagine it is going and what purpose do they serve in domestic politics, beyond acting as a dustbin for people to cast their protest votes in, and risking ensuring we return to the 13 catastrophic unlucky years of Labour ineptitude, dishonesty, corruption and economic illiteracy that would see the EUroSceptic cause set back by a generation, even possibly fatally wounded, by UKIP’s inept irresponsibility and lack of strategy or training!

Police investigating racism allegations against UKIP politicians

Monday, May 27, 2013

POLICE have stepped in to investigate allegations of racism against three newly-elected UKIP politicians on Lincolnshire County Council.

Officers will probe claims of allegedly racist comments on Facebook by leader Chris Pain and two colleagues.

  1. Chris Pain

    Chris Pain

The authority referred the case to police following “several” complaints from members of the public.

The UK Independence Party itself is also looking into the matter, and the third councillor being investigated is Alan Jesson.


He said: “I am shocked my good name is being dragged through the mud. They are not my comments.

“I won’t be taking any action because I don’t know where to start and I don’t have the money to do it anyway.

“Ever since UKIP councillors were elected on May 2 there has been a concerted effort to ruin us.”

All three are new members of Lincolnshire County Council. None of them has taken action against the claims or reported the online abuse to Facebook.

Lincolnshire County Council’s director for performance and governance, David O’ Connor, said: “We are taking complaints very seriously.”

Councillor Pain, leader of the opposition at Lincolnshire County Council, said his Facebook account had been hacked into. Similarly, Ms Keywood-Wainwright said some of the comments were the result of her account being hacked – but did however admit to some.

She said: “The comments I made were from months ago.”

To read the original of this article CLICK HERE

I do admit I have every doubt of the all too readily presented claim of ‘hacking’ of accounts as made very clear in other postings recently!
.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

 INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance

&
Work With THE MIDNIGHT GROUP to
Reclaim YOUR Future 
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GET YOUR COUNTRY BACK
Deny the self serving political clique ANY Democratic claims to legitimacy
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.
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Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins

tel: 01594 – 528 337
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Chris PAIN & UKIP’s Dilema Based on Racist Track Record!

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 23/05/2013

Chris PAIN & UKIP’s Dilema Based on Racist Track Record!
.

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
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The corruption of EUkip’s leadership, 
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is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

Chris PAIN & UKIP’s Dilema Based on Both His & UKIP’s Apparent Racist Track Record!
That UKIP Chooses to be allied and support racist bigots and extremists as partners leaves them absolutely no plausible way to deny their racist extremism!!

.

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
.
Hi,

having started a thread on a Forum regarding UKIP NEC member and recently elected Councillor Chris PainBarbara Booker’s comments:

Barboo

Trusted Member

Join Date

Mar 2007

Posts

984

Chris Pain

Under the headline ‘Racist rants of the UKIP councillors’, the Sunday Mirror writes:

quote

Ukip’s Chris Pain, leader of the opposition at Lincs Council and the party’s East Midlands regional chairman, wrote: “Have you noticed that if you *rearrange the letters in ‘illegal *immigrants’, and add just a few more letters, it spells, ‘Go home you free-loading, benefit-grabbing, resource-sucking, baby-making, non-English-speaking ********* and take those other hairy-faced, sandal-wearing, bomb-making, camel-riding, goat-********, raghead ******** with you.’”

Mr Pain said the comments on his Facebook pages were “not my original posts or writings”, claiming his *account had been hacked.

ends

What exactly is Chris Pain saying? The so-called joke about rearranging the letters of the words ‘illegal immigrants’ has been around for several years, so the question is not whether it originated from him but whether he has ever posted it to Facebook? Or is he claiming that someone else, having “hacked” his account, posted it to his Facebook page without his knowledge or consent?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news…s-more-1897414


This gave rise to the following response from ex UKIP NEC member Ian Gillman who resigned from the NEC as her was unwilling to be party to the corruption, oaffish behaviour and risk of joint and several liability in the risk of stolen public money and abuse, foul language, lies and bullying!:

22-May-2013
Yesterday, 10:59 AM #42

Ian Gillman

Member

Join Date

Aug 2010

Posts

289

Barboo in # 1 above kindly draws to our attention to alledged writings by UKIP Councillor, Mr Chris Pain of Skegness who also appears to be the East Midlands Regional Chairman and an N.E.C. member.

Mr Pain, it appears; claims that it is ” not my original posts or writings “.

Certain very nasty e-mails written by Mr Pain with numerous contact details for him provided, are in circulation, wherein he denigrates a range of persons. They are all destined for ‘Junius’ as explained and urged by Mr Pain.
There does appear to be a parallel here.

Interestingly a Mr Gwain Towler who is a UKIP paid official I think put out a public statement about certain matters ,appears within one of those nasty e-mails written by Chris Pain. He was certainly given the special Pain treatment, as was Derek Clark MEP, whilst Mr Nigel Farage was described as watching Mr Pain and his activities very closely as Mr Pain describes his intent to deceive.

It does appear that a discliplinary case file that has already been prepared for Mr Pain will have even more to consider now.

Or, would Mr Pain like to deny herein writing nasty e-mails and circulating them ?

Mr Pain sought legal advice from a Mr Don Ransome, the East Midlands Regional Organiser/Press Officer.
Mr Ransome is not qualified to offer legal advice , but never mind that, he offered it.

Would it not be best for Mr Pain to resign as a County Councillor, Regional Chairman , NEC member and from UKIP itself ?
Then, he should write a sincerely apologetic letter to Mr Anthony Ellwood the 15 year serving treasurer ( including a short spell as national treasurer during an interregnum) who during an attempt to reconcile the national accounts uncovered 95% and perhaps even more movements from the account as conversions into cash that went to unknown places. ?
Mr Pain has ( along with his friend Mr Ransome) treated Mr Ellwood shoddily, denigrating him . For what reason we can but ask ?

Gillman’s somewhat obsessive and tediouson the public forum were I gather, seen as libellous as he could not supply the provenance he claimed he had and would not retract his claims relative to Chris Pain!

This led, I had believed, to a lifetime ban for Gillman, though it seems he is still posting as at 22-May!

Also having made a perfectly civil and proper posting in a Private Message to on of the moderators which read as follows:

Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier
Dear Mr Allen,

You told me originally that my request would be forwarded to Anthony Butcher, while now you seem to have decided the matter yourself. I have just finished a telephone conversation with a barrister who knows much about UKIP, and she said that you cannot deliberately destroy published information, or deny a harmed party access to it for their legal purposes. You are certainly doing the latter of those things. Are you saying quite categorically that Mr Butcher has made this decison, and you are merely communicationg it to me?

If you believe that I have lied on the thread, which I certainly dispute, would you like to identify those lies, and confirm that you are permitted to punish me in the way that you have decided? Mr Fear made a statement on the thread which was wholly false. He seems unable to identify any supporting evidence on Junius. Your claim that I have a history of obfuscation, dishonesty and lying, yet I claim that is untrue, and I have not even a ‘parking ticket’ to blemish my good name. Yours is not a fair description of my reputation. You are protecting Mr Pain, an NEC member, who has used information gleaned by two UKIP employees in the course of their employment, to harm others. There can be no doubt about that.

I get the impression that you are deliberatlely protecting Mr Pain for reasons which have little to do with the interests of BDF. I would like the precise name of the person who finally decides to obstruct my request, if that is what they choose to do. Could I also have the legal status of the BDF; private limited company, etc.
Should it make things easier for you, can we ignore Mr Gillman’s postings, and confine ourselves to those affecting me, and my other witness Mr Ellwood? (1) Mr Fear’s original statement. (2) Mr Pain’s #373 and the ones involving the UKIP HQ manager. (3) Mr Ransome’s statement. If protecting named persons from libellous statements is important to you, I am sure that you will welcome my request.

Geoffrey Collier.


It is self evident that this eMail is at no stage any kind of threat against the Forum but rather a friendly warning from a long term and trustworthy member of both UKIP and the Forum, which UKIP has from time to time had totally dishonest co0ntrol over through, amongst others, the weak, self serving, dishonest and dublicitous Anthony Butcher who has proved time and again to be untrustworthy and only too willing to provide a platform for dishonesty and lies, abuse and libellous fantasies, as long as it suits UKIP and himself.

It is, in my opinion, dishonestly claimed that Geoffrey Collier, in giving friendly advice privately to a moderator has in some way threatened the forum and this has been at best misguidedly but based upon the Forum track record, more likely, dishonestly used to gag a critic of the corruption in UKIP – Geoffrey Collier has been dishonestly banned from posting on the forum for life (as was I( for having made a statement of FACT and provided provenance of the fact!).

Barbara Booker has gone on helpfully to plead Geoffrey’s case as has Niall Warry, another unstinting campaigner for probity, transparency and an end to corruption in UKIP to make it fit for purpose – not just as a one man band being exploited for the benefit of a small clique and supported by their corrupt claque!

Barbara Booker has summarised various facts, pertaining to Chris Pain and his apparent racist outbursts, as follows:

Be careful what you wish for!

The Skegness Standard reported on 20 May:

quote
UKIP has said it will be forced to eject the party’s newly elected Lincolnshire group leader if allegations he has made ‘racist rants’ on Facebook prove true. Party spokesman Gawain Towler said: “They are serious allegations and if proven true there is no way Chris Pain could remain a councillor with UKIP. However we don’t hang a man until he’s proven guilty and at the moment Chris is saying that his account was hacked.”
ends

http://www.skegnessstandard.co.uk/ne…ions-1-5108055

If UKIP decides that Chris Pain’s Facebook account was indeed hacked as he says (and it’s now also being claimed on the ‘Lincoln immigration issues’ site that it too has been hacked), then someone will have to explain why he allowed potentially damaging posts that he didn’t make to remain in place for so many months. If, on the other hand, UKIP decides that he did make the posts himself, and takes action against him as suggested by Gawain Towler, then it will only succeed in making UKIP a political laughing stock. Consider these facts:

Despite the impression created by the Sunday Mirror, which described the ‘illegal immigrants’ post as being among “racist rants of the UKIP councillors”, and Hope not Hate which calls it “the most disgusting racist outburst”, Chris Pain was not the author of the piece. It’s a supposed joke which seems to have originated in America in about 2009 and turns up, with slight variations, on numerous websites in the USA, Australia and here. The Chris Pain version is similar to that found on:
http://myrightwingdad.blogspot.co.uk…-lesson-i.html

‘Asylum’, which also appeared on Chris Pain’s Facebook in August 2012, dates back to at least 2001:
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/1140…cil-house.html

So, if UKIP decides that Chris Pain did post these items, he will be guilty not of having written them himself but of having forwarded them from elsewhere on the internet.

Those with long enough memories may recall an almost identical case in 2006 when a town councillor from Calne in Wiltshire, Conservative Ellie Bland, was suspended by her party for circulating an email containing the ‘Illegal Immigrants Poem’. She told the Wiltshire Gazette & Herald: “The e-mail is a joke email . . . . I didn’t write it I just forwarded it”, though later claiming that “someone else” had sent the email from her address.
http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/ne…racist_e_mail/

Contrast Gawain Towler’s statement above about Chris Pain, with UKIP’s reaction to Cllr Bland and her ‘racist email’. Two months after the story broke, Bland resigned from the Conservatives and was welcomed into UKIP, visited by Nigel Farage, and selected as UKIP candidate for the district council elections. “The support I’m getting is absolutely wonderful”, she gushed, “It’s heart-warming to know a leader will come and visit. If I ring him he answers the phone, talks to me. With David Cameron you could go to a meeting and be lucky to get him to shake your hand.”
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/n…fects_to_UKIP/

UKIP put out an enthusiastic statement, ‘Then there were four’ (26.1.07): “Graham Booth the local MEP said, This is brilliant news”, and even Nigel Farage’s assistant, Annabelle Fuller, had a dig at the LibDems over it on her blog (29.4.2007): “This is the party who caused a huge lot of bother for Councillor Ellie Bland when her husband forwarded an e-mail which was, I think, rather amusing, and accused her of being a ‘racist’.”
http://more-to-life-than-shoes.blogs…1_archive.html

UKIP cannot, in all seriousness, now turn against Chris Pain for exactly the same behaviour as resulted in Ellie Bland’s joining them and receiving such a joyful welcome!

Chris Pain does little to help himself and continue wityh outspoken racist views and values that lead one to believe he is just the sort of individual who would have made the comments on Facebook etc but has actually invoked not just the name of UKIP but his position of responsibility on behalf of UKIP and particularly its electorate in Lincolnshire, as the following article shows:

UKIP members of Lincolnshire County Council refuse to back anti-racism pledge

Friday, May 17, 2013

Profile image for PWhitelam_LE

PWhitelam_LE

All 16 UKIP councillors on Lincolnshire County Council have refused to sign an anti-racism declaration.

Labour’s Rob Parker presented the document to ensure all Lincolnshire residents are treated equality and have access to the same services.

But Chris Pain, leader of the county council’s UKIP group, the official opposition, told today’s annual meeting of the council: “I cannot support this document.

“It actually pushes forward the chance of multiculturalism, one of the fundamental things that’s wrong with our society.

“UKIP’s stance is not racist.

“Our stance is on space and space alone.”

The motion was passed by 60 councillors who voted for it, with 16 abstentions from UKIP.

The party’s own motion to reduce the council newspaper County News to a single yearly issue to cut costsfailed.

Cllr Pain had earlier pressed the council to reduce the amount of money spent on translators in Lincolnshire.

Saxilby ward member Councillor Jackie Brockway, Conservative, said: “I’m very concerned that there’s a theme developing that seems to be attacking the vulnerable and we need to careful about that.”

Cllr Hill said costs had already reduced from £54,000 to £43,000 and that translators performimportant roles in schools and law courts.

Liberal Democrat John Marriott said: “I would hope our colleagues from UKIP come up with some more practical solutionsas to how local government will survive.”

The meeting officially saw council leader Cllr Hill, his executive and committee heads appointed.

After last month’s election, the Conservatives lost overall control. Thirty-six Tories are now in a coalition with three independents and three Lib Dems.

UKIP has 16 seats, there are seven independents in opposition and 12 Labour councilors.

To view the original article CLICK HERE

Barbara Booker recently also pointed out:
Chris Pain has told the Boston Standard (20.5.13): 

quote

Coun Pain told The Standard that his account had been hacked and that he had not made the post himself. He said he does not agree with the words written and would never use them himself.
He told The Standard: “At the moment I am changing passwords like crazy and putting locks on.”

ends

http://www.bostonstandard.co.uk/news…cist-1-5109070


What I do not at all understand is, since the post in question was apparently made on 4 November 2012, see http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013…?utm_hp_ref=uk , why Chris Pain didn’t remove it and take action to safeguard his facebook account straight away? Why wait until now, when a post made in his name by someone else has been splashed all over the Sunday Mirror, before changing passwords and putting locks on?

Likewise with the earlier ‘asylum’ post, made 13 August 2012. 

Was he the victim of yet another hacker with that one?
I trust that helps to pull together some of the strands in this ongoing saga regarding UKIP Racism and the part in it which UKIP NEC member and former assistant to UKIP PPC Dick Horsnell from the Isle of Man, who laid the groundwork for much of UKIP’s achievements in the area with his substantial capital injection and committed campaigning via market stalls and carrier bags etc.
.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

 INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance

&
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Reclaim YOUR Future 
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Deny the self serving political clique ANY Democratic claims to legitimacy
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.
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Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins

tel: 01594 – 528 337
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Debacle Over The Tartan Curtain & UKIP Racism

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 19/05/2013

Debacle Over The Tartan Curtain & UKIP Racism
.

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
& Publicise My Blogs 
To Spread The Facts World Wide
of
&
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! 

.

The corruption of EUkip’s leadership, 
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC 

is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!  

.

Debacle Over The Tartan Curtain & UKIP Racism! One IS Judged by One’s Friends & as such UKIP is inescapably Racist, anti Jewish, anti homosexual and violent, having prostituted its ethics, ostensibly for cash rewards for its leader!

.

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
.
Hi,

although I am aware that there have been and will be claims of internet hacking by the members of UKIP, a Party undeniably linked with racism, when they are caught out in racist rants or other imature & crass behaviour.

Such claims fall into the catagory of ‘they would say that wouldn’t they‘  and thus render the claims of hacking or being misquoted all too implausible.

That UKIP’s candidates who were elected are in the main both insignificant and unheard of makes the claims yet more implausible as ‘hacking’ is a complex and skilled task and there seems every likelihood that no one of significance has been able to prove, in any way, that they have been hacked. Who exactly could be bothered hacking such irelevant individuals – frankly I incline not to believe this widespread claim of hacking!

You must draw your own conclusions but note that major national media outlets have a small army of lawyers who vet material to ensure its veracity and if there is genuine doubt they would rather spike a true story than risk facing the courts in a libel case where the courts tend to award disproportionate compensation to the ranks of nebishes bringing claims, despite the fact that their case would have required around £100,000 to be paid up front to fund front end costs in the High Courts!

Let us look first at this story below and then consider the other claims:

UKIP Councillor’ racist rants:

More of Nigel Farage’s troops exposed as bigots!

18 May 2013 20:49

bigots

A Sunday Mirror investigation has discovered sickening rants on the Facebook pages of party officials

Crackdown: Nigel Farage said the party is researching candidates' backgrounds
Crackdown: Nigel Farage said the party is researching candidates’ backgrounds
PA

Nigel Farage’s UKIP party is still riddled with racism… despite his claim of a crackdown.

A Sunday Mirror investigation has discovered sickening rants on the Facebook pages of party officials.

Details of their vitriol emerged only days after Eric Kitson quit as a councillor in Stourbridge, Worcs, after we exposed his internet slurs against Muslims and Jews.

Last month Farage claimed “a huge amount of time and money” had been spent researching the backgrounds of council candidates.

He said: “Our membership is up nearly 50 per cent, and inevitably we are going to have one or two teething problems.”

But today we can reveal his members’ latest hate-fuelled ­postings.

Chris Pain
Immigrants rant: Councillor Chris Pain

Ukip’s Chris Pain, leader of the opposition at Lincs Council and the party’s East Midlands regional chairman, wrote: “Have you noticed that if you ­rearrange the letters in ‘illegal ­immigrants’, and add just a few more letters, it spells, ‘Go home you free-loading, benefit-grabbing, resource-sucking, baby-making, non-English-speaking ********* and take those other hairy-faced, sandal-wearing, bomb-making, camel-riding, goat-********, raghead ******** with you.’”

Mr Pain has also ­objected to foreign doctors working in the NHS.

Last May he posted a story about a Hungarian medic who bungled an operation on a four-year-old boy in Manchester, and wrote: “We don’t want them taking all the jobs in the local community and we certainly don’t want them working in our hospitals!”

Peter Entwistle, party chairman in Bury, Greater Manchester, labelled President Barack Obama a Muslim, writing: “I bet he’s a closet ‘Imam’ as well!

“If I ever see him on a Greyhound bus wearing a rucksack, I’m getting off!!”

Peter Entwistle
Barack barracking: Peter Entwistle said Obama is a Muslim

The party’s deputy chairman in Scotland, Misty Thackeray, “liked” a Facebook group claiming “paedophilia is part of Islamic tradition”.

He also praised far-right Dutch politician Geert Wilders, a self-­confessed “hater of Islam”.

Recommending Mr Wilders’ new book, he said: “Geert is great …(peace be upon him.. lol) ..!”

Meanwhile Tiggs Keywood-­Wainwright, a Ukip councillor in Boston, Lincs, complained about mosques being built in “quintessentially English” Cambridge. “Is nowhere sacred for the Brits in Britain any more?” she wrote.

“Bottom line is we have too many muslims in this country!”

Mr Pain said the comments on his Facebook pages were “not my original posts or writings”, claiming his ­account had been hacked.

Mr Entwistle laughed when confronted about his President Obama bus comments, saying: “I don’t think I’d be the only one getting off.”

Tiggs Keywood-Wainwright
“Too many Muslims”: Tiggs Keywood-Wainwright
Sunday Mirror

Mr Thackeray refused to comment on “this ridiculous nonsense”. He said Mr Wilders was a “legally, democratically-elected politician”.

Ms Keywood-Wainwright admitted she “probably” regretted some of her remarks.

She claimed she meant there were too many Muslims “in certain areas”, adding: “My GPs are all Muslims and I have no ­problem with them at all.

“One of them is extremely nice and very, very good at her job.”

Farage described demonstrators who besieged him in Edinburgh on Thursday as “fascist scum”.

He also slammed the phone down on a BBC interviewer questioning him about Scots issues.

 

To view the original article CLICK HERE

That Nigel Farage found himself the4 victim of some of the abusive low life inadequates that seem all too prevalent in Scotland comes as no surprise to me having personally been dishonestly and corruptly abused in efforts to defame the facts I have published by some of the all too similar scum such as Matt Quinn, George McKendrick and a host of other vile Scottish ne’er do wells and failed personalities with their inadequacies writ large in bile in the manner they bear chips on both shoulders! Just look on the internet and you will find their cyber bullying and dishonest abuse all to readily!

That Nigel Farage played right into the hand of these cowardly parasites is indisputable with the overt racism, anti homosexuality, xenophobia and misogyny of the partners he chose for UKIP as its allies in The EU and increasingly it seems he chose as candidates within his own party as shown by the recent resignations amongst his all too small group of recently elected Councillors (a mere 147 out of the 1,700+ which he fielded!). None in Scotland you may note!

Consider the claims of being misquoted by Anne-Marie Crampton on this blog, when recently she claimed the media deliberately lied about her CLICK HERE

OR consider the following entry from another blogger:

RACIST TWEETS FROM UKIP CANDIDATE RON NORTHCOTT

Scots have been accused of being racist and fascist by Nigel Farage. 
 
Does he know the meaning of the words? Does his colleague Mr Northcott?
 
What does Farage think of the tweets shown above (click to enlarge) from Mr Northcott?
 
Farage accused Thursday’s small crowd, some estimates said 20 people (Nigel had it at 50), of being anti-English because they told him they didn’t want to see the union jack in Scotland again. 
 
Does he know what the flag of England is? 
 
Did he know that one of the organisers of the protest is English?
 
Nigel was launching his party’s bid to take the by election seat in Donside.
 
Does he have any idea how far away from Edinburgh Donside is? (AsBella Caledonia said, can you imagine him launching an election bid for Leeds from  Birmingham?)
Farage and Thatcher. She’s the one ON the mug
 
Farage was outraged that in a democracy he wasn’t even allowed to make his point before being shouted down. I’d concede him a point there. We should have let him tell us what his policies were: policies like repatriating powers to Westminster, getting rid of women’s and gay rights, abolishing our fairer system of elections, adopting English policies on education (£9,000 a year) and health (selling off the health service) and public services, before we told him we didn’t want any of it. 
 
But Farage wasn’t so keen to make his point when he was asked, politely, about his party’s dismal showings in Scotland. BBC Scotland’s telephone interview was relatively easy going compared with what SNP ministers have to handle. There were no hard hitting questions on some of the dodgier UKIP members, who earned the party the reputation for being clowns; no questions about Farage and his mates in Brussels and Strasbourg allegedly missing vital committee meetings where British fishing interests were in question, because they were allegedly drunk. (Interesting that Northcott above seemed to find it strange that a “jock” would be sober enough to string a sentence together. 
This is Mr Northcott. The one with the red nose
 
In his answers he conflated anti UK sentiments with anti English sentiments. And complained that he had been surrounded by people who wanted to take Scotland out of the UK. How on earth can he criticise an independence movement when his own party’s name is the UK INDEPENDENCE Party.
 
But for all that, given his chance to put his point, he put down the phone in the huff because he sensed hatred.  Jeez, the man needs to get out more.
 
Can you imagine how Alex Salmond would have dealt with that?
To view the original article CLICK HERE albeit an openly stated and obviously partisan commentator!

Clearly FaceBook particularly is an irresponsible host of ‘social media’ and its lack of discernment is self evident from the clear fact that any Tom, Dick, Harry or McTavish who is listed as a follower is glibly described as a friend and all too often Scots seem grossly ill informed of their own history but all too well versed in its mythology believing there is more than a shred of truth in ‘Brave Heart’ a work of pure fiction based on fantasy which puts butts on seats in cinemas!

I well remeber some years ago when Nigel Farage stations one of hs very scarce intelligent staff in Scotland for an election where sshe (Heather Conyngham) was tasked with finding out how politics in Scotland functioned and recruiting candidates to exploit it with her guidance and a very meagre purse! UKIP knew little of politics then and seemingly have forgotten most of what they may have know since!

There is no one of notable abil;ity in UKIP’s team in Scotland bar some fool of a pretend member of The House of Lords and perhaps one could count Malcolm Lord Pearson of Rannoch who not only proved utterly inept as Nigel Farage’s pupopet leaderr during the ‘Berkow’ debacle where Farage did so badlt but also Pearson was exposed as both disloyal and a liar!

Then of course there is the ex army Corporal who takes center stage to make UKIP Scotland a figure of farce with his idiotic misrepresentation of law as a so called ‘freeman of the Land’ of which there is no such legal entity and as a gullible gutter scraper with his utterly corrupt claims of veracity in the fantasies of Anne Greig & Robert Green regarding the febrile tissue of lies they have built around the sad figure of Hollie Greig (for facts and details CLICK HERE) – actions by which he clearly brings UKIP into disrepute on both sides of the Tartan Curtain!

With so little understanding of Scotland and its politics, much of which is based on Scotland’s own fantasy history and a warped understanding of both politics and international commerce; which has driven a bitter wedge of folly and hatred based on envy between Scotland and her allies Farage stood little chance of coming out of his recent misguided foray North unscathed.

I write as one who has both lived and worked in Scotland, where my parental home for over 20 years was Wester Ross!

In future Nigel Farage may care to consider the backdrop to his activities before parading his enactment of a Tory Boy and City slicker on behalf of UKIP north of The Tartan Curtain!
FARAGE, Nigel 75

.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
 

 INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance

&
Work With THE MIDNIGHT GROUP to
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.
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Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins

tel: 01594 – 528 337
Accuracy & Copyright Statement: CLICK HERE
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UKIP Slighted & Ambitious Trash & Unprofessional In Fighting …

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 26/03/2013

UKIP Slighted & Ambitious Trash & Unprofessional In Fighting …
.

 Please Be Sure To .Follow Greg_LW on Twitter. Re-TWEET my Twitterings
& Publicise My Blogs 
To Spread The Facts World Wide
of
&
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! 

.

The corruption of EUkip’s leadership, 
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC 

is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name! 

.

~~~~~~~~~~#########~~~~~~~~~~
.
Hi,
the back stabbing, squabbling and viciously odious behaviour of those on the make and the take in UKIP and those who feel they were in some way outwitted, out maneuvered or out performed in their efforts to climb the unsavoury and particularly greasy pole that UKIP provides on route to a place on the gravy train, or preferment in some way, can be measured by the following UKIP controlled public Forum posting.
Let us start off with this posting from an embittered and particularly repetitive pedant, on the UKIP controlled forum – I shall spare them the embarrassment of identifying them, suffice to say not the most reliable sources for information and untrustworthy, as I have found to my cost, also!
Many a sound and proven story exposing UKIP has foundered on this particular obsessive’s insistance on over egging the cake to impress. Clearly not realising that the simple facts and cross referenced truth suffice, one item at a time rather than throwing all the mud in the water and making it unpalatable for any investigator and too tedious for words!
Well what do YOU think:
Yesterday the ‘Junius’ internet site gave notice of its future intentions to publicise evidently unpleasant e-mails.
Just as though the trailer at the cinema for next weeks film that is to be even better than this weeks offering , the reader is encouraged to ponder then salivate.
The use of nasty e-mails about persons, especially those who gave of their time and resources to build up a volunteer base party is not now a new phenomenon.It has become a device to attain office that, sadly has succeeded.
Of course the e-mails that are to be offered for public consumption are able to be witheld were those within the team not wishing to destroy, then create a vacuum that they perhaps intend to fill.
Has this latest episode been prompted by illegal attacks upon persons computers ?
That method of attaining information has been employed against three persons to my certain knowledge in the past.
As so often with those who aim to be vindictive, convinced of the righteous nature of their fantasies, yet again we note they have jumped to the conclusion that an obvious 2 + 2 =s something other than 4.The deduction was so half witted that they failed to note the contact on Junius was awaiting forwarding of the material from me and I had firstly to redact to protect my sources and then to endeavour to ensure the veracity of the material I had been supplied!

The only reason I paid ANY attention to the gossip was that having compiled the posting late last night, as I endeavoured to post it Firefox crashed, deleting both the posting and the auto backups!

Sadly, as so often happens in a rush to judgement, the author of that foolish Forum post has got entirely the wrong end of the stick!
Then we have the spectacle of this foolish individual expounding on matters of which they clearly have little or no understanding – and just when is there proof someone’s computer was ‘hacked’ by someone in UKIP. Though I appreciate the grubby little sewer rat Nigel farage has employed ‘Mark Croucher, has from time to time claimed knowledge of hacking to make his lies more plausible and be of greater value to his pay master!
Clearly only a half wit would willingly put their computer forward on the internet without a serious degree of anti virus protection and a professional firewal of some sort. Frankly I do NOT believe that there has been either consequential or competent hacking within UKIP as such and as for GCHQ taking an interest on UKIP grounds dream on – they have better things to do, though clearly they don’t do them very well!
The case for having a computer hacked is very limited but without anti virus then clearly one is prone to Trojans and the like and exploitation of the computer by ‘hitch hikers’ either mass spamming or using the address book and the like.
At one moment attacking the duplicitous and corrupt Derek Clark and at the next seeking to defend him; as with the praise they lavish on Nikki Sinclaire and yet the damaging misinformation about West Midlands events!
The trail is long and tedious at one moment sharing information and yet at another, in breech of trust, playing secret squirrel to feed some fantasy or another!”
I would not be surprised if it was this buffoon who is spreading malicious rumours about Chris Pain supplying eMails to Junius and Geoffrey Collier leaking mass circulation ‘e’Mails!!! Or even trying to convince that the cartoons on The Junius Team blog are provided by Pain, leading some of the gullible fools in UKIP leadership to believe they are, when clearly many of them are actually signed photoshop cartoons and the rest are in the same style, mainly appeared in the ex UKipper and BNP sympathiser Andrew Edwards’ ‘e’Mail circulars.
But based on the level of political common sense in UKIP or political judgement one would hardly expect their leadership team to make intelligent guesses let alone professional deductions!
The material to which Team Junius allude on their blog is now my next task and with good fortune and a minimal number of interuptions (firefox not withstanding) I hope to have re-written the post later today – at which stage Junius Team will pick it up and post it, when they have time and their EU work allowing.
Meanwhile I shall await the latest efforts of the pond life of UKIP and its followers to desperately either stab each other in the back as they fight like inebriated ferrets in a pillow case desperately trying to hide their identities behind pseudonyms on the pretence that they NEED to protect their names for ‘internet security’ either they are dellusional or have a very inflated opinion of their worth!
I long ago stopped caring which foolish fake was Tubby arnott, Slime Croucher, Slut (you choose!), idiotic Finch, Mick McTrough, The Oaff Reeve, or any number of clowns too ashamed to put their names to their  vituperative maunderings.
To be fair I rarely read the postings of those who hide in shame there are enough items by honourable men and women to take up my time and at least with information supplied by real people it can be checked!
.

Regards,

Greg_L-W..

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