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Archive for the ‘EUkip; UKIP; Lawrie Boxall; Brian Lee; Niall Warry;’ Category

#640* – Brian LEE Makes a few OBSERVATIONS on EUkip!

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 06/10/2009

#640* – Brian LEE Makes a few OBSERVATIONS on EUkip!

Clean EUkip up NOW & make UKIP electable!

The corruption of some of EUkip’s leadership, their anti UKIP claque & the NEC is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!

Clearly the Butterflies that all old school, principled, activists of UKIP had hoped would emerge – have indeed, and have been captured through self seeking and greed in a net of racism, xenophobia, bigotry and sexual intollerance, as EUkip moves ever closer to abandoning its identity – prostituted for money as a pan EU political Party Group there are clearly more maggots, lice and cockroaches than butterflies



Brian Lee made some very good points regarding UKIP as it might have been and EUkip as it is.
Brian is well placed to comment having been a near founder member and senior branch chairman of UKIP, in the days when many activists still had patriotic principles and were not seeking enrichment and status at the expense of principle and by exploitation of the loyalty of kids and the ill informed.

His comments are thus all the more telling:

Unfortunately the leadership of UKIP became besotted with
their succcesses in the EU elections where getting elected required no political
achievement or credibility beforehand. They got elected precisely because the
Party was not considered relevant on British soil. Voting UKIP in EU elections
was the only opportunity the electorate had of saying ‘No’ to the EU.

To gain credibility where it matters has to start at the bottom. That means winning
seats consistently in local elections and building up a power base on local
councils. Although at a Party Conference many years ago Damian Hockney told them
this, the leadership could not drag themelves away from looking important in the
EU Parliament.

The UKIP MEPs have sold out the Party for their own self
gratification. More than that though they sold out their activists and the
people of the country.

Mr McGough seems to defend UKIP through thick and
thin, but does he consider that getting 1% at a local election gives him the
political clout to have his name on the list for EU elections?

Both UKIP and the English Democrats have shown that if they put their minds to it they can beat the BNP at local elections, but generally they have simply put up
candidates at both local and General Elections and hoped for the best. It should
have been a salutary lesson for UKIP when Jeffrey Titford who got the highest
vote for the Referendum Party at the General Election in 1997 lost his deposit
in 2005 as the local branch had disintregrated.

Annoying good campaigners has been a long established trait in UKIP and by all reports this has been one of the skills the current Party Leader has used effectively over many years. Perhaps a new leader will be less concerned with massaging his own ego and concentrate on turning UKIP into a serious election fighting machine
with policies that are relevent to the electorate. Mind you he hasn’t much time
before the next General Election so we shouldn’t expect any stunning

I see he has the measure of McTrough who in abject failure as a politician, since that is dependent on intellect and popularity, to at least some extent – he prostitutes himself to any venue belittleing himself and damaging every cause he espouses through the very nature of his personality and behaviour – yet wheeeeedling and brown nosing endlessly he is tollerated as a make weight on committees and would cross the country for the opening of an envelope if he could pretend to being of some relevance – he isn’t as the electorate have shown! A vile, mean minded, duplicitous little man – one presumes by his frequent absence about as popular at home as he is elsewhere!

Consider the ripostes to Brian’s informed comments, they get yet more interesting!

Niall Warry

So given UKIP MEPs are all signing up to a Pan-European
Party when will UKIP lose its name????

A sound and sadly apposite question!

Richard Allen naiively replied:

Come on Niall you are smarter than that.They won’t be silly enough to let UKIP’s
name disappear. That would cause outrage among the membership.

Clearly Richard has paid little attention to what is going on around him and the attempts to rebrand as Independence and the rebranding attempt using the Caterpillars And Butterflies logo which I launched and promoted and they eventually adopted. Look at the titling in EUkip’s pale imitation now dumped as too complex a message.

Millenium 3 reverted to comment on Brian’s informative post:

it is a pity that intentions are not declared [although I appreciate this is probably not possible if NF is to have a chance in Buckingham] – it will be a long hard slog to get a eurosceptic party competing domestically and it will be essential that all of the eurosceptic parties
[excluding BNP] work together – either in alliance or as one.

With NF no longer leader [and possibly/probably no longer a member] the main obstacle for some kind of alliance will have been removed. The sooner clarity emerges – the longer eurosceptics have to decide what is the best course of action for the GE – it would do the cause a great disservice if this was too late to make the best
possible use of the coming GE.

Millenium 3 goes on to comment on the facts provided on this blog and taken up and promoted through Junius

Although whether UKIP is to become a Pan-European Party is important – getting eurosceptic MPs into Westminster is presently the prime concern as this is the only route by which an In/Out referendum might be achieved [realistically that is all that is left].

As far as I can see the biggest unknown here is whether NF is going to jump ship once he has used the UKIP brand to enable him to stand against Bercow.

If he does – it will leave UKIP as a busted flush. If his intentions were known well before the GE – it would allow the eurosceptic parties [excluding BNP] an opportunity to present a unified policy at the GE, thereby making a start on the long road of creating an electable eurosceptic party. If it is left too late – 5 long years will pass before the electorate will be able to pass judgement.


I find GLW difficult to read – so much rage tends to reduce the message for me.

However I persevered and acknowledge that he has demonstrated that NF is planning to include UKIP in a Pan-European party which will necessitate a change of name and this is only being done to get additional funding.

Clearly this move will undermine potential UKIP domestically and is yet
more proof that NF’s interests are in Europe not here.

There is, as always, only one way out – through Westminster. All available resources need to be concentrated in the UK to get MPs elected.

Permit me some explanation of:

>I find GLW difficult to read – so much rage tends to reduce the message for me.

However I persevered and acknowledge that he has demonstrated that NF is planning to include UKIP in a Pan-European party which will necessitate a change of name and this is only being done to get additional funding.<

I make no claim that the purple prose and yellow journalism of my pro UKIP blog CatterpillarsAndButterflies is other than to expose the corruption, dishonesty and behaviour of the anti UKIP solids that have floated to the top in leadership and parasitic terms, in the septic tank that EUkip politics has become.

Regular readers of this blog soon learn HOW to read it and since it is a pro UKIP blog aiming to restore the principles, morality and integrity that once was more or less visible in UKIP before it was dragged into the gutter – often my hope is that the casual supporter may fast loose interest and only the serious devotee will follow to the end where often is placed the most damning of the stings.

Consider for the moment the utter contempt most EUroSceptics have for him and his avid devotion to the EU. This is foolish on several counts but a typical kneejerk reaction of the child minded of UKIP and even more so EUkip.

Firstly read everything you can of the man – know thine enemy and it is then that you start to realise he has mastered the art of the EU as a technocrat. Go to CLICK HERE you may not like him but his knowledge and understanding of the EU outstrips the sum total of political thought of EUkip’s leadership team!

Corbett’s 2 books amounting to almost 850 pages – the interim pamphlet and his Maastricht Treaty study opf over 500 pages – with such background reading as you can manage will tell you EXACTLY how the EU works, conjoin that with the works of Booker & North and you just might start to be able to formulate a plan for independence, self determination and a sovereign Britain – something EUkip nor UKIP before them have ever had the intellectual rigor to consider.

Why does EUkip stand in elections?

It sounds a silly question but I have yet to ever hear a grown up response!

Why does EUkip NEVER in 16 years hold a programme of training? Why has EUkip NEVER produced a pamphlet of gravitas or meaning – Tony Schofield produced some in the early days but they were never UKIP branded. Gerard Batten produces a rewrite of The Government Pink Book and fraudulent brands it as his brilliant work! No doubt a trick he learned whilst running a shop selling telephones for BT!!

How can EUkip lead Britain out of the EU when it is so very clear that it has never, ever, thought how to do it! Take the simplest of concepts:

01. Why do we wish to be out of the EU – Features, Advantages & Benefits – WHERE is the training paper for members to learn? Where is the pamphlet for the public to understand?

02. What sort of Britain are we aiming for?

A feel good, relaxed, shabby, indollent but at ease Country waiting to be conquered?

A striving industrial society, trading based on import of raw materials and value added wealth?

An intelectual country in terms of literature, invention and patenting?

A strident, bellicose nation, ever ready to conquer markets and dominate enemies as militarists?

There are a host of choices but EUkip hasn’t got a clue and has never debated it – how can one work towards a goal if you have neither defined it nor identified it and wouldn’t know it if it bit you!

03. What is the exit and survival strategy for Britain, where in fact is the cost benefit analysis of leaving the EU?

How does EUkip hope to sell a pig in a poke when it hasn’t even defined that it is clearly not a chicken!

04. How does EUkip intend to structure the transition period in terms of governance – have they the vaguest idea as they showboat, drink and whore their way around just how bloody useless they have been to date or are they so staggeringly stupid they lack even the intelligence to appreciate their incompetence?

It can be solved.

However the very last way to solve it is to emulate every other political party with worthy but utterly dishonest Manifestos and unworkable am.dram. policies that would embarrass many a sixth former in their naivite and simplistic stupidity.

EUkip seems not to comprehend that Governance is stultifyingly, staggeringly, stunningly boring – armies of little grey men whose ambition in life is to gain the promotion which entitles them to an extra chair with arms in their office for having produced the world economic standard for the counter rotating bearingless grommet running to 150 pages of numbing boredom but where no error of translation can be brooked nor misunderstanding be argued.

Governance is not play school for the inadequate and until EUkip starts to grip this idea and turn the party into UKIP once more they do not desreve to be voted for since they haven’t got a clue what they are doing.

Some slight perception of these realities emerged for the first time for literally years in the conversation herein which as the first INTELLIGENT discourse on UKIP’s forums and untramelled by the anti UKIP brigade wading in weenie waggling and seeking to justify the inadequacy, corruption, duplicity and self serving greed of EUkip and its leadership.

People like Deny, McTrough, Reeve, Malcolm Wood, Batten, Bannerman, Croucher, Feel Martinis, Duffy, etc. etc. – you know them all – they have almost destroyed the Party with their childish name calling, foolish dishonesty, braggadocio and bullying – Clearly they have absolutely nothing to offer adult politics or real progress to liberty – They have NEVER put forward any vision beyond that of hate!

I have shamelessly copied and creditted the conversation brought to my attention this afternoon – it was so unusual for a grown up discourse to materialise on what was UKIPForum that several people phoned me to tell me.

I do not pretend to agree with all the points made but I do believe there is still hope if these people can be cajoled to take over the running of the party and open core debate rather than the crass self serving buffoons in place at present.

Lawrie Boxall enjoined with the debate:

Like most UKIP members you are endlessly patient of NF’s
abuse of your goodwill. That does you some credit but it’s also one of the
reasons UKIP has under achieved in UK elections. In every general election since
1997 he has demonstrated his contempt for the membership by running away from
anything that looks like becoming an election campaign.Two other points,
firstly, motives apart, when the CO deserts the troops hours before the battle
it is not what I call leadership. Secondly, it is not too much work, unless you
consider appearing on TV and radio to aid your campaign amd your party’s
campaign too much work. In which case what exactly did he think his job was when
he became the leader – rhetorical question. It’s a poor excuse and no-one should
believe it. I don’t think Cameron will resign somehow citing overwork – he will
lead the Tory campaign from the front. Nigel just cannot be bothered to do his
job as leader, the job he was elected for. I think he is terribly afraid he will
do the work and another UKIP candidate will be elected and he will not – that is
very definitely not in the plan.I agree he has a chance to be elected, but don’t
be surprised if he becomes an independent if elected. Maybe that is enough for
you, for me these are exactly the reasons why I left.

Millennium 3 added:

I would go further than LB – I do not believe that NF ever
wanted UKIP to be anything other than a Tory pressure group [lend us your
vote!]. He does not want to take votes from the Tories at GEs and allow Labour
in, in the process. He is happy to demonstrate the number of votes UKIP could
take from the Tories as a negotiating tool and then offer to stand candidates
down if the Tories change their EU policy.Since the Irish ‘Yes’ – the game has
changed. The Lisbon Treaty is going to come into force and this can only be
altered through EU procedure – that the Council of Ministers agree the change.
Given the effort to get this treaty in place – even the most minor change is
unlikely.It is an In/Out referendum now or nothing – and the Tories are not
going to give an In/Out referendum – they want to be in Europe.

There is much to do and so little has been done through 16 years of UKIP and then EUkip weenie waggling and navel gazing as again and again the inadequates have relied on a pack instinct to drive out the leaders, thinkers and activists.

I give you a final thought – with every politician in every party little more than a clone of eachother INCLUDING EUkip where they are even now pretending to political status – is there ANY hope of getting Britain out of the EU since the EP is designed to thwart such an aim. Now with Lisbon all but a done deal even The Council of Ministers has its vague democratic position removed and becomes The Cabinet of The EU obliged not to represent any Country but sworn to uphold and progress the aims of the EU!!!!

Our own Prime Minister has absolutely no mandate or right to represent Britain ever more!

Thus clearly Westminster is to leadership and law making as the palace EUnoch is to the Harem.

Have you thought of what we are aiming for?

What we are doing?

How will we get there?


May I suggest a detailed viewing of CLICK HERE with a view to constructive criticism and how could YOU do it better in conjunction and co-operation in YOUR constituency since although there is a glimmer of hope for EUkip there MUST for the sake of these United Kingdoms be a Plan B.


What is the exit and survival plan for these United Kingdoms to maximise on the many benefits of leaving The EU. It is the DUTY of our Politicians and Snivil Cervants to ensure the continuity, liberty and right to self determination of our peoples they have a DUTY to protect against crime and secure both our food and our border.

NONE of these DUTIES has a single British politician upheld for 40 years. They have drawn their incomes fraudulently and dishonesty.

Politicians are failing to tell the truth, but so are almost all wanabe Politicians, the MSM and Snivil Cervants.

The fact is that even if EVERY British MEP wanted change in The EU it would achieve NOTHING.
Every single British Politician, of EVERY Party, elected since before we joined the EUropean Common Market, has promised to change The EU’s CAP – In 40 Years they have achieved absolutely NOTHING!

To try to put a value on OUR Freedom is as futile as floccipaucinihilipilification and as odious as the metissage of our societies, as we rummage in the ashes of our ancestors dreams, sacrifices and achievements, the flotsam of our hopes and the jetsam of our lives, consider the Country and Anglosphere which we thus leave our children and the future, with shame!

Greg L-W.
01291 – 62 65 62


I SUGGEST – since there is clearly no political party of repute, advocating or campaigning for withdrawal of these United Kingdoms from the EU and restoration of our independent sovereign, democracy, with Justice & the right to self determination in a free country. Deny the self seeking & meaningless wanabe MEPs the Mythical Mandate for which they clamour. Diktat is imposed from The EU but Law should be made at Westminster, for our Country & our Peoples.

Write Upon Your Ballot Paper at EVERY election:


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