“My gut feeling is that we’re going to get the Brexit that we fought for, and like your favourite old banger that you drove around and had wonderful picnics in and went to the seaside, it got you to where you wanted to go. But the day comes when you have to say goodbye to it and replace it, with a better model.”
Nathan Gill is not talking about a car, but about his own party.
As the party embarks on its third leadership contest in a year, UKIP’s MEP in Wales thinks that, unless the party can find a big issue to corral around like the Brexit negotiations, it could be curtains for its future.
Paul Nuttall, the party’s last leader, resigned after a dire general election performance which saw the party win no seats and, in Wales, saw UKIP lose all of its deposits in the 32 seats it contested.
Its share of the vote plunged too, from 13.6% in the 2015 general election to just 2%.
It didn’t always look like it was going to be this way.
Image caption Nathan Gill suggests that a UKIP without a cause to rally around may be like an “old banger”
Back in May 2016 UKIP formed a group in the assembly with seven AMs sitting in the Senedd.
The assumption held by many was that their assembly presence would serve as a springboard for the party to continue to build its presence in Wales.
So far, that has not happened.
Since the Senedd election two of their most high-profile members – Mr Gill and Mark Reckless – have gone independent, dwindling their assembly numbers to five.
UKIP also failed to take off at the Welsh council elections a month before the general election result, failing to win any seats.
David Rowlands, the UKIP AM for South Wales East and a long-standing member of the party, argues that the poor performance in June was not down to UKIP but the fact that the poll was like a “presidential” election.
“The reason that it looks so bad for ourselves is that we’ve hit such heights over the last few general elections,” he says.
But there had been internal disagreement over the party’s general election campaign, which focused on banning the burka as a key policy.
The issue fed into the question around what UKIP’s purpose is now, with its core policy – Brexit – being implemented by the UK government.
Mr Gill, who remains a UKIP MEP despite being an independent AM after falling out with Senedd group leader Neil Hamilton, says the reality was that there “was the one issue that united us, and that was leaving the EU”.
“The only way really that UKIP can continue, I think, is if we have that big picture, that big goal of what we need to achieve,” he says.
The MEP claims a “half-baked” Brexit could “reignite UKIP”.
Image caption David Rowlands denied there was an existential threat to the party
The new model Mr Gill refers to in his old banger analogy “may be a political movement, it may be a new party”.
It is important to remember that Mr Gill has had his own difficulties with UKIP in the last 12 months – having been threatened with expulsion by the ruling National Executive Committee over being both MEP and AM.
Meanwhile Mr Rowlands denies there is an existential threat to UKIP and says the party represents something others do not.
“What people don’t understand is, if someone should leave the UK Independence Party at the moment, which party would they go to to reflect their views?
“I’m dyed in the wool UKIP, but could I go somewhere else and feel comfortable that they care about this country in the way I care about the United Kingdom?”
He admits that some members have thought the job was done after the referendum.
“There was a feeling out there, and it was among a number of members of UKIP, that we’ve done the job that we came into being to do, we’ve got ourselves Brexit… therefore what is now the raison d’etre of the party?”
Mr Rowlands, however, says “large numbers” of members who felt that way are returning to UKIP because they fear the Brexit negotiations do not reflect what the British people voted for.
Unlike Mr Gill, Mr Rowlands said he had been comfortable with the burka ban policy.
“I think the burka is an appalling garment… to me its a symbol of oppression of women”, he says.
Image caption Anne Marie Waters is one of the 11 hoping to be candidates for leadership of the party
There are now 11 hopefuls who have registered an interest in taking over the party. They face a vetting process that is currently pegged to end this Friday, with voting due in September.
One of people thought to be a frontrunner is Anne Marie Waters – who has been vocal in her opposition to Islam.
There is talk of UKIP MEPs resigning if she won.
Mr Gill has been reluctant to say very much about the leadership campaign – he is not publicly backing a candidate.
I try to make every effort to NOT infringe copyrights in any commercial way & make all corrections of fact brought to my attention by an identifiable individual
It Seems Another Branch Is Trashed by UKIP Stupidity!
A mere 186,000 people ignored!
All because UKIP lost ANOTHER Court Case it seems!
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. Hi,
earlier today I heard word that UKIP Stockton-on-Tees Branch was shut down!
Perhaps this flurry of inactivity was the reason that it seems no one from UKIP was in The EU Parliament today – no doubt they were permitting vile extremists like The Lega Nord and their other extremist partners in The EFD represent the UKIP electorate!
I am forced to assume after making complete fools of themselves and prosecuting a case in defence of their idiotic behaviour rather than acting honourably and intelligently with regard to Alan Hardy, as reported on this blog previously (See the Right Sidebar for LINKS) – they then went on and incurred expenses of around £30K to loose the apeal as was predicted on sound legal grounds by this blog and others!
In what seems to be a childish fit of pique it seems they have shut down The Stockton-on-Tees branch of which Alan Hardy was a member!
So it seems they have squandered over £30,000, have accrued two more Guilty verdicts, had to pay compensation to Alan Hardy and reinstate him.
Even now in what seems a childish fit of tantrum they have shut Stockton-on-Tees branch in a city with a population of around 186,000 – I guess UKIP can afford to ignore that many voters – Just as they did when Nigel Farage ignored the NEC, Policy and the voters of Wales with his divisive invention of a new policy of his own thus trashing any vague hope UKIP had of increased representation in Wales!
No doubt Gordon Parkin will be pleased with this childish action in his fiefdom as Regional Organiser! One wonders who will be pleased with the branch funds of members contributions of £1,000 or so! . .
#0305* – UKIP WALES Ex CHAIRMAN: ‘UKIP is now a complete irrelevance’ .
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! .
The corruption of EUkip’s leadership,
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC
is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name! .
Niall WARRY TheEx CHAIRMAN of UKIP WALES : ‘UKIP is now a complete irrelevance’!!
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UKIP is now a complete irrelevance.
3 reasons and more as to why I’ll be posting and commenting a lot less for a while on this UKIP part of the Forum.
The First reason: – is that after my nearly 6700 posts nothing much has changed, so as skeptyk recently pointed out, I feel I need to follow my oft quoted adage:-
“INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THIG OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT!”
The Second reason:
– is I have in the last few months become increasingly aware that:-
“THE ONLY THING WE LEARN FROM HISTORY IS THAT WE LEARN NOTHING FROM IT!”
Which in the context of the EU means that what will be will be and there is nothing that UKIP or anyone else can do about it. This is especially so since the signing of the Lisbon Treaty and in my opinion (and yes B.A. Ware this thread is all my opinion!) the most likely scenario is that the Euro region will split in two which would then give us the chance of re- negotiating our relationship with the EU. However whether this chance is taken is again another matter.
The Third reason:
– I shall be posting and commenting far less in the UKIP part of this Forum- is that UKIP is now a complete irrelevance having achieved NOTHING of consequence in the last 17 years to aid our withdrawal from the EU. Also given that it is about to be consumed into the Pan European EFD, in all bar name if UKIP is lucky, UKIP will virtually cease to exist.
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OK so why has UKIP been so ineffective over the years – well I guess two words sum up the reason and they are:-
NIGEL FARAGE:
Leaving aside his media strengths Nigel has been the most abysmal and diabolical LEADER I have ever been associated with.
He has had no strategy, tactics, vision or plan to speak of, has no idea of how to set an example, is divisive, has no integrity, is morally deficient , totally unprincipled, financially greedy, unscrupulous, vain and dreadfully insecure to name but a few of his more obvious weaknesses!
While he may not as yet have been accused or charged with any criminality he is widely perceived to lack financial or moral probity with a host of unanswered questions he has so far refused to explain. Hopefully one day the old bill will come knocking on his door looking for answers?
He has of course managed to remain in power by:
“Fooling most of the members of UKIP most of the time.”
From my experiences of Chairman of Wales and Cheltenham I know that most UKIP members and members of the public have absolutely no idea what is going on in UKIP, and vote for Nigel, simply because he looks good on the telly!
As to the rest of his supporters in the party I believe they fall into two main categories:-
1. Those who like him, are making money from the EU and don’t really care what he gets up to. This obviously includes his fellow UKIP MEPs and his staff all of whom he controls.
2. Those who are totally naive and believe that despite his MANY failings some greater good is served by not rocking the boat too severely if at all.
To this second category I’d say:-
“ALL THAT IS NECESSARY FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS THAT GOOD MEN DO NOTHING.”
From what I can now see history teaches us that you have to change a political party form WITHIN as Blair did to New Labour, but all those against Nigel have ended up leaving UKIP rather like the ‘Gang of Four’ left the labour Party – and look what happened to them!
If ALL his dissenters had stayed in the party and fought from within something might have been achieved. But they would have needed a strong leader with enough time to formulate a plan to win over the membership as to why Nigel’s strengths were not as leader.
I did try to fight from within for 5 years and know some other people tried to improve UKIP, like the Lechlade and Phoenix Groups. However I don’t think they really had the right leadership or stomach for the fight. As a result Nigel was able to out manoeuvre them especially as he controlled the money and staff placements.
As to the ‘INDEPENDENT Leave-the EU Alliance’ it is to be mothballed but NOT folded as to keep it ‘live’ only costs £25 a year. I think the I L-T-EU A has much going for it and it can always be taken off the shelf and dusted down if needs be. Never forget:-
“A JOURNEY OF 1000 MILES STARTS WITH A SINGLE STEP.”
And that step has been taken!
If you have any doubts about the value of more INDEPENDENTS at Westminster please read Vernon Coleman’s book ‘Bloodless Revolution’.
If you get in contact by private message I’ll send you a copy free, as he gave us 500 copies for the election and I still have a few left!!
Now to all those who say I’ve not answered questions put to me on this Forum I beg to disagree as I have always tried to answer directly and as you all know I post under my own name.
However I confess to getting hacked off with some you from time to time, which I regret, for I genuinely believe that debate is not improved by intemperate language.
This leads me to my support for GLW but I would remind you of what I have ALWAYS said which is:-
‘I don’t agree with all he says or ESPECIALLY the way that he says it’
I think his pursuit of Nigel, to see him held to account, is a worthy cause as nobody should be allowed to benefit and get away with as much as he has.
However I believe GLW is now wasting his time trying to reform UKIP as it is completely beyond reform, given Nigel’s hold over the party and his plans to consume UKIP into the EFD.
I don’t fault GLW, with others, for their determination to try and clean up UKIP and make it electable, but I personally doubt this will EVER happen.
Finally I still intend to update the Forum, from time to time, on what is being said by the likes of GLW, Junius and Eric Edmonds under the new heading ‘UKIP-vs-EUKIP’ so I’m not going to completely fade away and will still be posting under my own name when I do – although I was debating adopting the pseudonym “The ORACLE” but modesty will not allow!!
Good luck to those of you that remain discussing UKIP but personally I believe you are all flogging a dying if not dead horse! CLICK HERE
Niall Warry Telephone – 01749 838816 Mobile – 07957 872074 ‘e’Mail at – niall@warry.go-plus.net CLICK HERE & BBC Institutional Bias
Please permit me a correction of a possible misunderstanding:
I have NEVER been anything other than a supporter of UKIP in declared principle and aims and have ALWAYS defended and supported the party.
It is for this reason and in a fundamental belief in the genuine patriotic nature of the peoples of these United Kingdoms that our historic Continental enemies have done all they can to debase and break apart.
Consider the underhand behaviour of France in repeatedly seeking to attack, conquer and abuse these United Kingdoms – whether by Agincourt, Plessy or Cressy or the efforts made to destroy the Union with their support of the snivelling coward known as ‘Bonnie’ Prince Charley for his availability to the men of The Court of Versailles and let us unfairly claim because he was a complete charley! Few Countries make much of having been led to defeat from the back by a leader who promptly ran away dressed in a frock!
Even The Welsh were genuinely disgusted by their betrayal by their own Minister of State tripping around Clapham Common in his wife’s frock giving oral sex sequentially to male strangers!
Let us not forget the various occasions when Germany has set out to create a Union in EUrope – aided by The Franks of Vichy France.
Firstly PLEASE show an instance anywhere on any of my blogs where I have EVER wittingly told a lie about a person or misrepresented a fact; or for that matter, where I have EVER attacked UKIP – I have frequently, however, criticised the activities of those who have betrayed, befouled or besmirched the principles and values of the Patriotic decent folk who are the grass roots foundations of UKIP.
IF you locate a consequential error in ANY of my blogs or an accidental error I have made of consequence PLEASE contact me and I will IMMEDIATELY check out the facts and make any correction apposite. My contact details can be located at: CLICK HERE
#0267* – UKIP MEP EFD MEMBER John BUFTON – GOOD LUCK!! .
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! .
The corruption of EUkip’s leadership,
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC
is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name! .
UKIP MEP & EFD MEMBER John BUFTON – GOOD LUCK! I Gather he is making a steady recovery!!
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Hi,
an unequivocal good luck to John Bufton in his recovery from his recent stroke which precluded him attending Strasburgh a couple of weeks ago.
At under 50 (John was born in 1963) a stroke so young is far from good news, though a full recovery is likely at this age but without care it can be the first signs of a series of related health issues to follow.
It is understood that John had a minor stroke that went largely un-noticed before Christmas merely effecting his speech and hand writing, which would indicate a left side of the brain indicating a Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) in such a slight stroke that it was, I understand, only diagnosed on 24-Jan-2011.
An issue pointed out to me having made this posting – do look at the picture above, the date of which I do not know, and cover first the right and then the left side of the face and note their dissimilarity, which is not as clear in other earlier pictures – could this possibly be NOT the first TIA? Merely the first to give notable symptoms?
This IS a life threatening vascular disorder and can also lead to Dimentia however with age and time on his side a full recovery is probable but life comes with no guarantees!
May I remind John that life is what gets in the way of your plans (ambitions) and the cemetries are full of young men who would not heed the warnings!
Although John Bufton is an ambitious chap if too weak to stand on his own feet, hence his participation in the sordid support of racism, xenophobia, anti Judaism and sexual intollerance that his membership of Farage’s vile EFD Group denotes – One need only look back on his CV to realise he has never seemingly had a consequential job with a high stress level, and as something of an habitual worrier buckling to the bullying of Farage and fear of the claque of parasites that are Farage’s praise singers and sycophants it is probable his position has been a contributory factor in his stroke(s).
The life style of an MEP is utterly stupid and when you think I have had a tail on one MEP recently who has slept in 6 different places in 7 days as a part of his job, moving from home to EU, London to constituency etc.
John has virtually relocated from his home and do be minded he uses homes in mid Wales, Weston and on the south coast not to mention Strasbourg and Brussels. Not a sensible life for anyone with common sense, which may explain the low caliber of politicians!
John may have the sense to stand down and nurture his health and go back to the more simple life he led seeking to be all men to all people! However false optimism is likely to preclude such sense! All too often warnings are not heeded and a return to the stress level life of on and off of planes and as has been said in the past of John that Anger Management might help – just as withdrawing from trying to keep pace with the hard drinking and over indulgence of the life of many MEPs would be wise – though unlikely.
All too often people think that strokes are a result of a poor diet and in many instances they are! A bad diet may well be too many lobsters in cream sauce washed down with expensive wine – an EU diet for an MEP funded on the public purse!!
Let us hope John takes the advice of his doctors and has the maturity to withdraw from the needles stress and foolish life style of his pointless existence in The EU when he could do so much more, so much more effectively seeking to get Britain out of the EU by spreading the word IN BRITAIN as a UKIP MEP rather than a member of the vile EFD posing and posturing in The EU, a pointless existence and a betrayal of britain and UKIP electorate.
It is entirely upto John Bufton whether he chooses to live or is bullied into following down the slippery slope to his early demise.
The choice is yours John – but do take care of yourself as I can imagine nothing more catastrophic for UKIP supporters than your having to stand down on health grounds or worse there is just no one in Farage’s party in Wales who would be other than utter disaster as a replacement – they have made absolutely no valid impact in Wales and are without gravitas, competence or ability able only to abuse and insult as a defence of their utter incompetence.
To be fair John was completely out of his depth but sadly he is head and shoulders above the chiff chaff & trash that are UKIP in Wales.
I would hazard a guess that John’s son is now about 14, so let us hope John takes care of himself, both for his family and for UKIP supporters like myself.
I was reading John Bufton’s web site with some interest – here he is addressing the colleagues in The EU Parliament:
seemingly his close colleagues were enthralled!
But taking a wider view of the matter:
No one seems much interested in what he has to say, but then again consider the subject matter which is so pertinent to his remit to campaign to Leave-The-EU – and at the end of the day what on earth is he wittering on this subject about when did he gain knowledge of this was it as a local councillor?
Perhaps whilst managing a council care home for the elderly
or
as a debt collector harassing people who had not paid their TV Licenses!
Is it any wonder no one is listening to his views on The Western Sahara!
When one spots such obvious stupidities from a man costing 100s of £1,000s a year to get Britain to Leave-The-EU, yet fiddling his expenses, as shown by The Daily Mail and Dispatches, making ZERO donations of any consequence to the cause, out carousing as Jack the lad in Brussels and Strasbourg, when clearly he should be in Wales promoting the cause not idiotically show boating in The EU, where he is a complete and utter irrelevance!
It is then when already irritated by the stupidity that one notices details that normally don’t matter such as on a salary of around £80K a year he presents with just the one tie and a single suit on each video on his front page.
One feels a need to pick him up and shake him to see if, besides his gabble, he is in fact awake!
It is then that I noticed:
Perhaps someone could wake him up!
King George VI died 06-Feb-1952 aged 56 having been born in 1896 – were he alive today he would be 115.
Minded that John Bufton is a Politician and law maker in place to defend The British Constitution, and regain our Sovereign Independence it surely is incumbent on him since the King died 11 before he was born to not still be seeking donations under The King’s Crown! Yes indeed a detail but just the sort of detail to which our politicians should pay attention long prior to spouting about The Western Sahara, about which I doubt he knows a single thing of consequence!