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UKIP vs EUkip – FlexCit offers the UK an EU Exit and Survival strategy

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 20/06/2014

UKIP vs EUkip – FlexCit offers the UK an EU Exit and Survival strategy

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!!

UKIP vs EUkip – FlexCit offers the UK an EU Exit and Survival strategy.
Original Detail in context can be found at:
http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=89457&page=517&p=1812052&viewfull=1#post1812052

Details of FleXcit can be found at:

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UKIP vs EUkip – FleXcit offers the UK an EU Exit and Survival strategy.

I make no apology for the length of this post as it is aimed for those who are seriously interested in leaving the EU and realise the need for a workable and ethical eXit and Survival strategy.
I believe the time is now right, with the passing of the Euro Elections, to refocus this thread, by adding to the title, to thus change the emphasis from the exploits of Nigel’s EUkip to the challenge of getting UKIP and others to adopt a workable eXit and Survival Strategy.

My thanks to the moderators for facilitating this.

The reason for adding to the original title instead of a starting a new thread is to keep the post’s history, context and development as we refocus on the ‘HOW’ best we will actually be able to leave the EU without which I maintain we will never win the battle to leave the EU.

The important consideration now is to win any In/Out referendum ‘if’ and ‘when’ held and not forgetting the all important task of ensuring the outcome, assuming we win, is binding.

Currently I believe the only VIABLE ‘eXit and Survival Plan’ in the public domain is FleXcit as written by Dr Richard North, with contributions from many of those who read his blog EU Referendum blog. Even a recent review of the six finalists in the IEA’s BreXit competition acknowledged that they did NOT provide the definitive solution and another may well be needed.

What is abundantly clear is that without the ‘Outers’ mustering behind a WORKABLE plan the field will be left open to the Establishment and Europhiles to use Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) to maintain the status quo. The history of the 1975 referendum proves this point extensively and I highly recommend the well researched and authoritive book on the subject by two fellows of Nuffield College Oxford, David Butler and Uwe Kitzinger unsurprisingly called, ‘The 1975 Referendum’!

This thread was of course started on the 27th February 2011 with the intent of pointing out the differences between where UKIP should be heading and where I and others felt Nigel Farage was leading the party which, to differentiate, I called EUKip. As I asked within days of starting the thread ‘What is UKIP for’?

Despite the new title to this thread, it is still my contention, supported by many others who can see beyond his anti EU rhetoric, that Nigel’s EUkip is not fit for the purpose of helping navigate the UK safely out of the EU. In 21 years EUkip has NEVER put forward an ’eXit & Survival Strategy’ in support of their claim to be seeking an amicable divorce form the EU. Claiming you want something is the easy part but tackling the how and having the power to implement your plans is of course an entirely separate matters both of which Nigel’s EUkip doesn’t come close to – in terms of gravitas, competence or ability –  as proved over the last 21 years.

Since the beginning of this thread I have learned a great deal and been able to hone my arguments over the whole EU debate and after a few faltering early comments and remarks, which I have acknowledged, my aim has been to see UKIP reformed but not destroyed. I have tried endlessly to explain and persuade others that UKIP will never be reformed under Nigel Farage’s divisive cult style leadership and as the apparent Eurosceptic brand leader we need UKIP to appeal beyond its relatively small core vote, shown recently to be a mere 9% of the electorate, to over 50% of the electorate, a level of support obviously needed to win that referendum when called.

Another point I have brought up over and over again is that Nigel Farage has never invested the intellectual effort and time to produce an eXit and Survival plan preferring to concentrate his efforts to achieve electoral success at the Euro and General Elections. However as I have also frequently pointed out UKIP MEPs are about as much good as an ashtray on a motorbike and Nigel’s plans, to concentrate on elections, currently shows no signs of getting an MP to Westminster, especially after the Newark result where they could not have been better placed to win. They were still on the crest of the wave, after their success at the Euro elections, the candidate was the ex-Tory Roger Helmer who was well known in the area, Cameron’s Tories are unpopular with many core Conservatives and finally the out going MP Patrick Mercer was exposed for corruption.

Despite all these factors in UKIP’s favour the Tories won handsomely with 17,431 to UKIP’s 10,020. By any serious analysis this result bodes ill for any prospect UKIP has of gaining a single MP let alone a workable number at the 2015 General Election.

As I have often said Nigel and his cabal have all gone native in Brussels and his latest ‘freebie’ escapade in Malta before the Newark bye election provides all the evidence you need that he always puts his own self interests above those of HIS party.

So how can FleXcit help us leave the EU and what does it advocate?

The FleXcit paper, which I recommend is the sort of document you need to read several times to really start to understand it, is due to be published in the Autumn but you can still read the latest version as it is developed at :-
http://www.flexcit.org/

In summary the plan, which is a play on the words FleXible, eXit and Continuous Development, is just that a FleXible and Continuous Plan to help us Exit safely from the EU, after 40 years of integration, whilst upholding all our international treaty obligations which we are legally and morally obliged to honour, under the terms of the Vienna Treaty on International Treaties. This will allow us once again to gradually take our own seat at the global top table rather than, as we currently are, being represented by an unelected EU official. As we negotiate ourselves out of the EU we will be free to act directly, on the world stage, for our own interests, unfettered by membership of the EU. It is a given, as advocated by any serious commentator and even the recent IEA Brexit competition, that the start point for beginning the process of Britain’s withdrawal from the EU will result from us implementing Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

The absolutely vital fact to grasp is that FleXcit advances a flexible continuous process that will crucially neutralise the Establishment’s use of FUD and their promotion of the false safety of remaining with the status quo, which can be seen, has not been successful especially in the EU! In the initial stages this is what has become known as the Norway Option, involving joining EFTA to retain our membership of the EEA, but it is only the start of the flexible and continuous process we will be on until we regain our complete independence from the EU. FlexCit will help fight classic FUD like the scare that ‘3 million jobs will be lost if we leave the EU’, which is simply NOT the case as we have no intention of leaving the Single Market (SM) made up of 28 countries until, further down the line, something better can be negotiated between the other 22 countries in Europe that are not members of the EU’s SM.

So FleXcit is a multi layer solution where the Norway Option is only an interim step along the way to establishing something much larger which will be achieved via the eight point plan explained in it.

Interestingly there is no strong economic case that can be made for leaving the EU and we will always struggle to argue for withdrawal on those grounds just as conversely there is equally no economic case for staying in the EU. However there are strong democratic and humanitarian reasons for leaving the EU related to the advantages of Self Determination and taking back control of our own destiny from undemocratic and unrepresentative Euro politicians and the unelected bureaucrats and of course, as already mentioned, the benefits of representing our own self interests on the world stage.

It is after leaving the EU that we would be free to concentrate on pushing forward with the introduction of The Harrogate Agenda’s (THA) six demands, which are based on the principles of Direct Democracy, as while leaving the undemocratic EU is a start we would still be faced by a corrupted and undemocratic Westminster. THA aims to give ‘Real Power to the People’.

Having left the EU an integral part of the FleXcit plan is the realisation that the democracy at Westminster must not only be greater and more responsible but more closely responsive to the peoples of Britain, to avoid them ever again being duped, as they were over the Common Market, by the MPs they have elected to serve them. Our political elite are increasingly a law unto themselves and only by the people being recognised as sovereign over our Parliament will things change. As a reminder THA’s six demands are:-

1. Recognition of our sovereignty:
The peoples of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland comprise the ultimate authority of their nations and are the source of all political power. That fact shall be recognised by the Crown and the Governments of our nations, and our Parliaments and Assemblies;
2. Real local democracy:
The foundation of our democracy shall be the counties (or other local units as may be defined), which shall become constitutional bodies exercising under the control of their peoples all powers of legislation, taxation and administration not specifically granted by the people to the national government;
3. Separation of powers:
The executive shall be separated from the legislature. To that effect, prime ministers shall be elected by popular vote; they shall appoint their own ministers, with the approval of parliament, to assist in the exercise of such powers as may be granted to them by the sovereign people of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland; no prime ministers or their ministers shall be members of parliament or any legislative assembly;
4. The people’s consent:
No law, treaty or government decision shall take effect without the consent of the majority of the people, by positive vote if so demanded, and that none shall continue to have effect when that consent is withdrawn by the majority of the people;
5. No taxation or spending without consent:
No tax, charge or levy shall be imposed, nor any public spending authorised, nor any sum borrowed by any national or local government except with the express approval the majority of the people, renewed annually on presentation of a budget which shall first have been approved by their respective legislatures;
6. A constitutional convention:
Parliament, once members of the executive are excluded, must host a constitutional convention to draw up a definitive codified constitution for the peoples of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. It shall recognise their sovereign status and their inherent, inalienable rights and which shall be subject to their approval.

For more on THA see:

http://HarrogateAgenda.org.uk

I still believe it will be important, in this thread, to continue to link to what others are saying about UKIP, as I originally set out to do, and generally comment on such links while adding my own thoughts as necessary and applicable. This of course helps to expose the incompetence at the heart of Nigel’s EUkip and of some of his supporters as demonstrated on this forum.

So by adding to my original aim, of highlighting EUkip’s need to reform, I will now use this thread to seek to explain the importance to UKIP of the FleXcit plan as currently the only workable and honourable ‘eXit and Survival plan’ from the EU which helps neutralise the Establishments use of FUD and will thus help us to win the referendum.

That UKIP members and branches still potentially have some clout, with their county coverage, is not in doubt but they will need to start to think for themselves and therefore must look beyond Nigel Farage and his cabal’s poor leadership and to push and promote the FlexCit plan. Nigel’s current focus on anti EU rhetoric and attempts to win seats next year will NOT on its own help us to win the all important referendum. I don’t hold out much hope that Nigel is capable of changing his ways and the behaviour and quality of output of his 24 MEPs will, in a relatively short time, give us all the evidence we need to see if they are really serious about wanting to leave the EU.

I hope you will join constructively in this new phase of this thread, working to assist in supporting and improving the FleXcit plan, in the spirit of continuous development, between now and the referendum ‘if’ and ‘when’ held. Also I hope you will do all you can to spread the word that the FleXcit plan helps counter the Establishments use of FUD to maintain the status quo by answering the all important question as to ‘HOW’ we can safely leave the EU. This is a plan that does NOT get in the way of party allegiances and so should provide no barrier to any real ’Outer’ supporting it.

Don’t forget that no political party is permitted to lead on either the Yes or the No side in any referendum so those who are really serious about seeking a safe and honourable exit from the EU should be able to gather around this plan.

So FleXcit it has to be if UKIP or anyone else for that matter really wants to win the battle to successfully leave the EU.

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Regards,

Greg_L-W..

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Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins

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Posted in Farage, FleXcit, FleXcit Plan, GL-W, GLW, Greg Lance - Watkins, Greg_L-W., Harrogate Agenda, Niall WARRY, NORTH Dr. Richard, Norway Option, Richard NORTH, Richard NORTH Dr, UKIP | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

#0305* – UKIP WALES Ex CHAIRMAN: ‘UKIP is now a complete irrelevance’

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 24/02/2011

#0305* – UKIP WALES Ex CHAIRMAN: ‘UKIP is now a complete irrelevance’
.
Clean EUkip up NOW make UKIP electable! 
.
The corruption of EUkip’s leadership, 
their anti UKIP claque in POWER & the NEC 
is what gives the remaining 10% a bad name!
.
Niall WARRY TheEx CHAIRMAN of UKIP WALES
‘UKIP is now a complete irrelevance’!!

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UKIP is now a complete irrelevance.

3 reasons and more as to why I’ll be posting and commenting a lot less for a while on this UKIP part of the Forum.

The First reason: – is that after my nearly 6700 posts nothing much has changed, so as skeptyk recently pointed out, I feel I need to follow my oft quoted adage:-

“INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THIG OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT!”

The Second reason: 
– is I have in the last few months become increasingly aware that:-

“THE ONLY THING WE LEARN FROM HISTORY IS THAT WE LEARN NOTHING FROM IT!”

Which in the context of the EU means that what will be will be and there is nothing that UKIP or anyone else can do about it. This is especially so since the signing of the Lisbon Treaty and in my opinion (and yes B.A. Ware this thread is all my opinion!) the most likely scenario is that the Euro region will split in two which would then give us the chance of re- negotiating our relationship with the EU. However whether this chance is taken is again another matter.

The Third reason: 
– I shall be posting and commenting far less in the UKIP part of this Forum- is that UKIP is now a complete irrelevance having achieved NOTHING of consequence in the last 17 years to aid our withdrawal from the EU. Also given that it is about to be consumed into the Pan European EFD, in all bar name if UKIP is lucky, UKIP will virtually cease to exist.
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OK so why has UKIP been so ineffective over the years – well I guess two words sum up the reason and they are:-

NIGEL FARAGE:

Leaving aside his media strengths Nigel has been the most abysmal and diabolical LEADER I have ever been associated with.

He has had no strategy, tactics, vision or plan to speak of, has no idea of how to set an example, is divisive, has no integrity, is morally deficient , totally unprincipled, financially greedy, unscrupulous, vain and dreadfully insecure to name but a few of his more obvious weaknesses!

While he may not as yet have been accused or charged with any criminality he is widely perceived to lack financial or moral probity with a host of unanswered questions he has so far refused to explain. Hopefully one day the old bill will come knocking on his door looking for answers?

He has of course managed to remain in power by: 
“Fooling most of the members of UKIP most of the time.”

From my experiences of Chairman of Wales and Cheltenham I know that most UKIP members and members of the public have absolutely no idea what is going on in UKIP, and vote for Nigel, simply because he looks good on the telly!

As to the rest of his supporters in the party I believe they fall into two main categories:-

1. Those who like him, are making money from the EU and don’t really care what he gets up to. This obviously includes his fellow UKIP MEPs and his staff all of whom he controls.

2. Those who are totally naive and believe that despite his MANY failings some greater good is served by not rocking the boat too severely if at all.

To this second category I’d say:-

“ALL THAT IS NECESSARY FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS THAT GOOD MEN DO NOTHING.”

From what I can now see history teaches us that you have to change a political party form WITHIN as Blair did to New Labour, but all those against Nigel have ended up leaving UKIP rather like the ‘Gang of Four’ left the labour Party – and look what happened to them!

If ALL his dissenters had stayed in the party and fought from within something might have been achieved. But they would have needed a strong leader with enough time to formulate a plan to win over the membership as to why Nigel’s strengths were not as leader.

I did try to fight from within for 5 years and know some other people tried to improve UKIP, like the Lechlade and Phoenix Groups. However I don’t think they really had the right leadership or stomach for the fight. As a result Nigel was able to out manoeuvre them especially as he controlled the money and staff placements.

So I now intend to concentrate on my local election campaign, my BBC bias blog The Freedom Association, The UK Defence Association and my work with The Royal British Legion.

As to the ‘INDEPENDENT Leave-the EU Alliance’ it is to be mothballed but NOT folded as to keep it ‘live’ only costs £25 a year. I think the I L-T-EU A has much going for it and it can always be taken off the shelf and dusted down if needs be. Never forget:-

“A JOURNEY OF 1000 MILES STARTS WITH A SINGLE STEP.” 
And that step has been taken!

If you have any doubts about the value of more INDEPENDENTS at Westminster please read Vernon Coleman’s book ‘Bloodless Revolution’. 
If you get in contact by private message I’ll send you a copy free, as he gave us 500 copies for the election and I still have a few left!!

Now to all those who say I’ve not answered questions put to me on this Forum I beg to disagree as I have always tried to answer directly and as you all know I post under my own name.

However I confess to getting hacked off with some you from time to time, which I regret, for I genuinely believe that debate is not improved by intemperate language.

This leads me to my support for GLW but I would remind you of what I have ALWAYS said which is:-

‘I don’t agree with all he says or ESPECIALLY the way that he says it’

I think his pursuit of Nigel, to see him held to account, is a worthy cause as nobody should be allowed to benefit and get away with as much as he has. 
However I believe GLW is now wasting his time trying to reform UKIP as it is completely beyond reform, given Nigel’s hold over the party and his plans to consume UKIP into the EFD.
I don’t fault GLW, with others, for their determination to try and clean up UKIP and make it electable, but I personally doubt this will EVER happen.

Finally I still intend to update the Forum, from time to time, on what is being said by the likes of GLW, Junius and Eric Edmonds under the new heading ‘UKIP-vs-EUKIP’ so I’m not going to completely fade away and will still be posting under my own name when I do – although I was debating adopting the pseudonym “The ORACLE” but modesty will not allow!!

Good luck to those of you that remain discussing UKIP but personally I believe you are all flogging a dying if not dead horse! CLICK HERE

Niall Warry
Telephone – 01749 838816
Mobile – 07957 872074
‘e’Mail at – niall@warry.go-plus.net

CLICK HERE 
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BBC Institutional Bias

Please permit me a correction of a possible misunderstanding:

I have NEVER been anything other than a supporter of UKIP in declared principle and aims and have ALWAYS defended and supported the party.

It is for this reason and in a fundamental belief in the genuine patriotic nature of the peoples of these United Kingdoms that our historic Continental enemies have done all they can to debase and break apart.
Consider the underhand behaviour of France in repeatedly seeking to attack, conquer and abuse these United Kingdoms – whether by Agincourt, Plessy or Cressy or the efforts made to destroy the Union with their support of the snivelling coward known as ‘Bonnie’ Prince Charley for his availability to the men of The Court of Versailles and let us unfairly claim because he was a complete charley! Few Countries make much of having been led to defeat from the back by a leader who promptly ran away dressed in a frock!

Even The Welsh were genuinely disgusted by their betrayal by their own Minister of State tripping around Clapham Common in his wife’s frock giving oral sex sequentially to male strangers!

Let us not forget the various occasions when Germany has set out to create a Union in EUrope – aided by The Franks of Vichy France.

Firstly PLEASE show an instance anywhere on any of my blogs where I have EVER wittingly told a lie about a person or misrepresented a fact; or for that matter, where I have EVER attacked UKIP – I have frequently, however, criticised the activities of those who have betrayed, befouled or besmirched the principles and values of the Patriotic decent folk who are the grass roots foundations of UKIP.
IF you locate a consequential error in ANY of my blogs or an accidental error I have made of consequence PLEASE contact me and I will IMMEDIATELY check out the facts and make any correction apposite.
My contact details can be located at: CLICK HERE 

Thank you.

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Posted by: Greg Lance-Watkins
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Posted in Cheltenham, Eric EDMOND Dr, Ex UKIP, GLW, Greg_L-W., Junius, Niall WARRY, Nigel FARAGE MEP, WALES | Leave a Comment »

 
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