.
CP : Chris Pain
WG : Will Gilpin
KS : Katie Snape
CP: Hi, is that Will?
WG: Yes.
CP: Hi Will, it’s Chris Pain from UKIP.
WG: Hello there.
CP: Hello. First of all, I thought we’d start the conversation saying sorry you are not in the party)
anymore.
WG: Yeah, yeah.
CP: To say I was shocked doesn’t quite cover it.
WG: Yeah I was too.
CP: I think basically I just can’t, I can’t get my head around the fact that we should be that used to
men who could be an asset to the party and I just thought we ‘ve got people there that they aren’t
seeming to be pushing the party forward.
WG: I’m a bit confused by the whole thing. I wasn’t given any warning, you know. I told them I was
unhappy with the constraints on my loral but that’s clearly annoyed Nigel.
CP: It’s ridiculous because, because as the CEO…I couldn’t understand why you was reporting to
Steve Crowther anyway.
WG: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CP: It was obviously they just wanted to keep you in check.
WG: Well my interpretation is Steve had his indicative powers taken off him, he saw me as a way of
shutting the NEC up
CP: yes
WG: while not being challenged.
CP: Yeah. Well I’m just absolutely gobsmacked, I can’t believe it thinking well, where are we
supposed to be going with this one. At a time where we should be pushing forward, we’ve got the
new offices at which you organised and things like that
WG: Yeah
CP: Unfortunately, There seems to be and inner circle of yes people who just keep saying yes.
WG: yes indeed yes
CP: I mean I noticed it when Nigel came to Boston, the fact that we were round the table having a
meal and the Sun rang wanting to do a big article on how Pro Margaret Thatcher him and the party
was.
WG: Yep.
CP: And we got Ray Finch , Michael Heaver and Gowain all saying yes great Nigel , oh how fantastic,
oh great story’ because Nigel was saying yes, or ‘sorry Nigel, I was a big fan of Margaret Thatcher
Lord Tebbit, that’s prior to the prior to the EU as well ‘but you’ve got to realise North of Watford, in
places she the anti Christ.
WG: Yes
CP: I said it’s something you’re not gonna gain…I said the Sun paper is not a big Conservative paper,
it’s a working class paper that people look at for the boobs. I said it’s something I never get …I said
it’s not for Conservative readers and if it was in the Mail or Guardian, Express, Express probably
more, yes I could see them making an impact with it if that was there but in the Sun it’s in the wrong
place
WG: Yes
CP: and the neutral go ‘oh, no no no no’. What amazed me is that people sat round the table saying
‘oh you should tell them yes, do it’, rather than saying well no Nigel I think that’s wrong.
WG: Yep
CP: And that’s what he seems to be happy with.
WG: Yep, no that’s all he ever is really, If you look at the MEP selection list you know the top 10
people are the top 10 sicko fantasty list really aren’t they.
CP: Well yeah we…we…and also it’s even worse than that because what we found is if you look at
the MEP list the top 2 to 4 are his favoured few and the remainder are people who are no hopers
who aren’t gonna challenge
WG: Yep, it’s either people you’ve never heard of or Nigel’s mates.
CP: Yep, he’s too obvious. For you for the South East, we’ve got Piers is not on there, Steve Harris I
know not everyone likes him but he’s popular locally, Andrew Montclief I know Andy…illness
problem, but he’s ex NEC member policy maker he still should stand a chance,
WG: yes
CP: Neil Hamilton was a surprise but obviously that was an internal deal done, he’s been promised a
job since anyway in the party
WG: Yeah, yeah yeah.
CP: So that’s when you look at Mike Nattrass our region yes, I know Steve was going to take me out,
but you look at, the three people after Margot Helmer one has been a party nine months so should
be on there without going to a separate assessment, one has been in the party a long time, didn’t do
anything last European election campaign, the was a number two on the East Midlands committee,
didn’t get re voted on so didn’t go for four years, there’s not been anything since. And somebody
nobody’s ever heard of – even people here don’t even know who he is.
WG: Yup
CP: So he it sticks out like a sore thumb, when you’ve got Jonathan Arnott dropped in on number 1
in the North East.
WG well that’s astonishing isn’t it
CP: I can think of better words Will, but I think astonishing is quite a polite way of putting it, and
although David Coburn has got a link to Scotland, I don’t think he’s been there for 34 years.
(Phone rings)
WG: I think I see that’s a way to get rid of David Coburn
CP: Oh yes,We’ll give him the number 1 there The thing he’s not switched on to in Scotland is
Scottish people vote for the candidate, so I’m aware that some of the votes in the past for the NEC
has been dubious to say the least so when it goes to Elcom so that’s not going to do David any good
at all.
WG: No, no, no, and the other thing that surprises me, thats putting it mildly, is Nuttall becoming
Number 2 I simply don’t believe it
CP: Yeah
WG: Yep you know Paul, he’s fine But I do not believe he is the best candidate the party can put
forward after Nigel,
CP: No No
WG: the coincidence of Nigel 1, Nuttall 2 just shows the whole thing has been gerimandered.
CP: Oh yes Without a doubt.
WG: Why they excluded me from the process of course.
CP: Well yes the thing is, it’s quite obvious, Steve did it from day one, the whole process, pushed it
rammed it through made sure he was chairing the subcommittee no minutes from the
subcommittee at all, which to be fair is not unprofessional, it’s crooked,
WG: Yeah.
CP: And then actually pushed it forward even further to reach exactly where people are, without the
actually NEC passing a mandate on how people should be picked, good.
WG: Yeah, yeah.
CP: And these all way through
WG: And it’s a win-win because either we accept the list that we are given or we reject the entire
process at which point Nigel appoints the list.
CP: yes
CP:it would probably, probably be a bit fairer actually at least you can pin it on him.
WG: This is so.
CP: I look at what we’ve done so far and although I don’t agree with that at least it would save a lot
of people a lot of time, energy and effort, in the party…
WG: And money…
CP: And money, and at least it would be straightforward until that’s Nigel’s choice that’s it
WG: Yeah, yeah.
CP: And all Steve has done is pushed it through regardless.
WG: yeah
WG: It was perhaps the final straw for me in terms of my enthusiasm for the process but…
CP: Yeah. So What are you doing now the Will?
WG: Nothing. I’ve taken a holiday for a week and now I’m going to start working out what to do. I
had to wait until you know I wont, I won’t find something else while I’m in the media, you know,
given that I’m not meant to go and work for another political party so
CP: no
WG: I’ll just have to wait for that to die down you know.
CP: Are they still paying you?
WG: They gave me a month’s notice, yeah.
CP: inaudible
WG: inaudible, yeah. It ‘s irritating but it’s something. You know, to be fair I said to Steve lets get to
the conference and then after the conference we’ll have a chat about my, my position.
CP: yes
WG: Steve said yes that’s fine because conference is important, but (inaudible) so I might have been
leaving in October anyway. Because Steve Steve hired me as chief executive and then tells me my
inaudible is the database, my other responsibility is the head office staff, you know, that’s, that’s a
pointless role, and it’s been annoying me that there was a lot of people bitching about me in the
party because I get paid the most of any party employee and I do nothing of any value, and I agree
with them. You know, you know,
CP:
WG: em you don’t hire a chief executive and not let him do anything.
CP: Stuart Wheeler touched on it once, asking why you was reporting to Steve as the Chief
Executive, and he was you know pushed to the side, but I’m also aware of the fact that, assuming
that things are being discussed the NEC, and they’re not coming out in the minutes.
WG: Yep.
CP: They’re being deliberately missed off the minutes.
WG: Yes indeed
CP: erm And what’s going to happen with Mike Nattrass is in the main meeting I know it’s definitely
cos I, said that (no paid party employee being) part of the MEP (selection) process.
WG: yeah yeah
CP Steve saying I’lll go and have a long summer holiday, with nothing to do, I said look Steve
(there’s no problem overseeing it ) but, but last time we had independent people of good standing
in the process,
WG: Yeah
CP: and then what they did it was all passed on.
WG: yeah yeah yeah
CP: And of course that’s why he’s not had the committees ratified by the NEC because they’ve said
that, he knew he would not get it through .
WG: Yeah
CP: So it’s absolutely…it’s diabolically corrupt.
WG: It is, it is. And you know, it really disappoints me…the party could have been so much more
over the next couple of years.
CP: No No he’s took his chance
WG: inaudible Nigel wants to carry on the way he is, with his little gang of mates having a bit of fun
in the media, you know, and that’s it as far as he is concerned I think.
CP: Well I think it is aimed at a pact with the Tories in 2015.
WG: Well…
CP: Something that Paul said to me a year ago.
WG: Yeah, yeah, it’s certainly been discussed, I’ve heard it discussed, my honest view is it’s not
aimed at anything at all other than Nigel getting a decent income and a decent pension, whether
that’s is in the House of Lords or…
CP: Or that’s what I’ve heard anyway…
WG: but a commission sees….
CP: Yeah That’s what I’ve heard. That’s the target, but my view if you do that the party’s is dead in
the water anyway.
WG: Yes it is
WG: No, he doesn’t care does he. I don’t think he does.
CP: Yes, No, I think that’s the final nail in the coffin, and he’s worried that he doesn’t want anybody
in a situation as an MEP that could take the party on, if he said ‘we’re doing this’ and then somebody
else in a prominent position could say well, no Nigel, we’re not doing that’.
WG: That’s he that’s why nobody with any personality
CP: Yes
WG: can get onto the list, isn’t it?
CP: Yeah. No no inaudble
WG: That’s why he keeps Paul Nuttall around. Paul is a competent MEP but Nigel knows he he could
never be leader.
CP: Him also, I think he’s blackmailing Paul as well
WG: Okay, Okay.
CP: but I won’t go there
CP: Something come up before about the the national selection
WG: yeah
CP: and Paul was vehemently against it
WG: yes
CP: and went into a room with Nigel, and then came out and didn’t say a word at the meeting,
WG Okay
CP: so I’m 99% positive he’s blackmailing him over Louise and other things.
WG: Yeah, yeah.
CP: And that’s why I think how he’s keeping Paul on check, cos Paul says he’s not even speaking to
Steve Crowther.
WG: Okay.
CP: I think that’s what Nigel’s got to has got his little black book, thats he’s attacking people on,
WG: yes
CP: I think that’s how he does it. If people are honest and he hadn’t got anything on them, he
doesn’t like that.
WG: yes yes
WG: It’s probably something he learned from Annabell.
CP: He did say that, yeah. Can I ask you a straight question?
WG: Yeah.
CP: it’s involving me
WG: yes
CP: Did the Steve Crowther have any involvement on my side when it came in front of the NEC?
WG: What…when it came to your three month suspension?
CP: Well no before that.
WG: What did you mean?
CP: Well did Steve have any conversations with you or anything separately or?
WG: I’ll give you an honest answer which is I can’t remember the details, but I was well aware that
Steve had a lot of activity towards you and had made it very clear that he would like to get you out
of the party and would do whatever he could to achieve that.
CP: that would be his aim, that ties up with what somebody else said as well
WG: okay yes
CP: somebody else quite high up has said exactly the same
WG: Do you remember when you arranged your conference, invited me and Katie to speak at it, or
me to speak at it, and I turned you down because Steve gave me a direct order that I wasn’t to
attend and that I wasn’t to have anything to do with you, and given that he was paying my paycheck
I went along.
CP: that’s obvious but, but it’s unbelievable…
WG: yes so
CP: it can’t believe,
WG: Just because, his argument to me was basically that it was a…that the conference was a project
designed to get you elected, and as we didn’t want to get you elected, we had to do our best to not
support it.
CP: That explains why Lisa and everybody else cancelled on Sunday as well, because they cancelled
on the Sunday, they were doing the Sunday training for people and they cancelled.
WG: Right
CP: I take it that They got the same?)
WG: I imagine so. I’m not aware but I’m sure they would have done, Steve was pretty ,pretty
animated about it, you know. And I trusted him, because I liked Steve, I didn’t really know him that
well, but I’d done a couple of bits of him, and I liked him and I guess he thought that because I liked
him he
WG: could get me to do what he wanted, you know. So it’s taken me quite a while to realise…that, I
haven’t still quite figured him out.
CP: But to be honest with you how can I say this.
WG: I know he doesn’t like Nigel, but on the other hand this is his career isn’t it.
CP: He says he doesn’t like Nigel but… I think that…
WG: But he knows that Nigel is his…
CP: Paymaster.
WG: Yes, exactly, his gravy train.
CP: I’m aware of the fact that…I mean Steve (first), I got on with okay,
WG: yes
CP: as a bloke he’s a really likeable bloke, but when you scratch beneath the surface and then you
see some of the antics that he does, it’s not for the party. He’s not got the party’s interest in mind.
WG: No, no, no. And that’s the fundamental point – that neither Nigel nor Steve have the party’s
interest in mind. There are a lot of other people in the party who don’t either, but that’s the nature
of politics, there’s a lot of people for who it is a career and they’d be happily doing this for the Tories
or Labour.
CP: Without any conviction at all
WG: Janice Atkinson, the betting in the office was how soon after being elected an MEP she defects
to the Tories.
CP: Yeah, yeah …it is unbelievable. I mean, I’ve been tipped off that Annabelle Fuller had something
to do with my thing in the Mirror. We’re getting evidence because apparently she’s had an affair
with editor of the Mirror.
WG: Okay, well yeah, but whoever she had an affair with.
CP: Me, me. I still think she’s a trollop. But that’s by the by, but no that’s, I had heard that from a
certain source as well. Which doesn’t surprise me because then
WG: inaudible
CP: Which would mean Steve could be behind it?
WG: Yeah.
CP: seriously Will I’m sorry for everything that’s happened, it’s daft and you get people in the party
then this happens It seems to be a common, common thing if you get anybody whose, who wants
to do anything…
WG: Yeah, yeah. It’s a shame…
CP: Whats The biggest shame is we stand such a chance
WG: yes
CP: to do so well
WG: yes yes, and you’ve got to do it the same way you done it in the past which was fine for winning
one by election at a time.
CP: yes
WG: yeah
CP: Yeah, never mind. Anyway I hope best of luck in the future Will
WG: Thank you very much.
CP: So I hope everything goes alright for you.
WG: Yeah.
CP: upon you anyway inaudible
WG: It’s just unprofessional, the whole thing, you know.
CP: Well mean you can turn round and say that you’ll work to the end of your contract and give you
six months whatever away, sort yourself out thats different. And if they gave you a straight list of
jobs of what they wanted you to do…
WG: Yeah, think about what could be achieved in that timeframe.
CP: Yeah, ‘look, this is what we want to achieve’, and then if it turns out in 6 months you’ve not
achieved any of them that’s a different kettle of fish. But when they’ve held your hands behind your
back and not let you do anything,
WG: yeah
CP: and then say well hold on, what…why…I’ve done everything you’ve asked me to do.
WG: Yeah. All of my complaints have been about not being given work to do, not about the opposite
you know.
CP: Oh well, never mind. Best of luck for the future Will, I hope it goes well.
WG: cool
CP: Cheers then Cool. Bye.
WG: Bye.
CP: Went through it quite clearly with him, more than understanding it
WG: yeah
CP: he kept going on the same tact the fact that ‘oh, it doesn’t matter the fact they weren’t on your
site’.erm I said of course it does, because that is what people think, that it was on my Facebook site.
WG: Yeah, yeah, yeah, although you were dammed if you did and damned if you didn’t in fact,
weren’t you.
CP: Yeah. yeah
WG: Because if you had admitted they were on your site he would have you for that, and if you had
said they weren’t he would have accused you of lying so.
CP: The downside is, he knows the fact we weren’t there. He knew we weren’t there afterwards.
WG: Okay, okay.
CP: I actually gave him the proof and sent it to him directly, showing him where they were.
WG: yeah
CP: I didn’t get that till I approached the news editor who actually sent it through to me
WG: Okay. Yeah
CP: But I’d like to think they’re what I (inaudible) because I’ve been told by somebody else he was
using it purposely to actually take me out the MEP position and to take me out of the party. Which
coincides with what you said.
WG: Yeah, I I know that that was something you wanted to do. I can’t tell you if there was any
specific plan at that instance other than he just saw this opportunity and thought that’s good you
know.
CP: I mean how long have you been…I mean who ever said why he wanted me out the party, has he
ever dropped that reason out or…? Is it down to Nigel or…?
WG: Yeah, its all been partly down to Nigel. I think it’s because you’re pushy and Nigel doesn’t like
anyone pushy because they might go for the leadership at some point.
CP: That’s ridiculous. I mean I can’t understand how Steve, after all the work, hard work I’ve done,
and other people have done with this MEP selection process he’s proved it, I mean all he’s done is
pick the people he wants there and anybody who stands half a chance of challenging are out the
running, be it Neil Hamilton,
WG: yeah
CP: be it Nattrass, be it Piers Wauchope all the people that are good people who should be on that
list aren’t there.
WG: Yeah, yeah, no I agree. And I think if Nigels Nigel protecting his position (inaudible).
CP: its unbelievable
WG: Yeah And that is why the party can’t achieve what it should have achieved, you know.
CP: You think that’s why Steve trying to take me out the party period its just because he thinks
obviously I’m pushy and
WG: Yeah, I mean… he has not been explicit to me so you can’t quote me and say ‘Steve says this’,
because I don’t know. But that’s the impression I got from Steve, I didn’t get the impression there
was anything else behind it, but there might be…maybe is there something that happened between
the two of you in the past?
CP: no
WG: inaudable
CP: No, no, no.
WG: Or anything like that, then I expect its just Steve and Nigel think you were getting too big for
your boots, building a power base for yourself.
CP: Right
WG: They only want one power base in the party, don’t they?
CP: yeah ridiculous
WG: In other parties there would be lots of power bases, in UKIP there have never been lots of
power bases have there?
CP: No…just one that’s that
WG: Yeah.
CP: But actually what peeves me off is that all the hard work you do for the party,
WG: yeah
CP: then you get treated like that.
WG: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no I understand that.
CP: I mean, after weeks of going out at weekends and doing the elections and no money from the
party and things like that, and you think well hold on, this is ridiculous.
WG: Yeah,
CP: I mean that the only one I can see is Steve being removed as chairman of the NEC, he’s obviously
got, got to much power which he’s wielding at his and Nigel behest and not for the benefit of the
members of the party.
WG: the problem is that he will be replaced by somebody else who relies on Nigel for his
employment you know,
CP: yeah
WG: the chairman is appointed at the whim of the leader that’s the rule isn’t it
CP: yeah
WG: there fore
CP: it probably got to change and be appointed by the will of the vote of the NEC.
WG: would seem a better way to do it
CP: that happens on other committees erm I assume that the only downside is the make up of the
NEC is probably too many people there reliant on it for their MEP postion.
WG: yeah
CP: it would be better once the MEP’s are out of the way, because..
WG: yeah
CP: then they might vote with their heart and conscience rather than how they are told to vote
WG: yeah
CP: okay well I just thought about that afterwards how much of rolls is he playing in this obviously
WG: you know in terms of what happened then that was simply you know Steve saw his opportunity
he got me to get somebody to have a look at your site and that was simply their report that was read
out, you know, I am not going to tell you who they are because they are still in the party, but I don’t
think they particularly had a grudge I think they were just doing what they were told, you know.
CP: right
WG: on the other hand clearly
CP: yes so he obviously portrayed it in a way,
WG: yeah
CP: the not that obviously just by him getting you to say that all the awful stuff had been deleted
WG: yeah
CP: then he used then he knew the fact that is wasn’t there in the first place
WG: yeah yeah
CP: Although it sound damming in front of the NEC, and in front of a disciplinary proceedings he
wouldn’t have got away with that, because I would have had witnesses there and evidence and gone
through everything bit by bit
WG: yeah
CP: it was like everything he threw at me at that meeting, erm from the thing about the what do you
call it, the rally in Boston, which he knew about, which had been passed by Paul, and the motion
which he told me to do exactly what I did do, and he knows he told me exactly what to do, and Piers
said the same erm and to throw all these things in it was obviously bazaar, I mean I should have had
a disciplinary action where I got a seven days notice where I could have took each but of evidence in
with me, to go through them
WG: yeah which is what Piers said isn’t it
CP: and that’s you know obviously he didn’t want that, because he thought he could actually con
peoples as a full NEC and twist the facts marginally enough to hit me with other stuff to make it, get
it passed.
WG: yeah
CP: through a disciplinary procedure he would need
WG: Katie is a bit more independent only a bit more but a bit more independent than the two of us
CP: yeah
WG: her view on Steve is he’s used to being the boss in his little agency where he was God, and he
has got that arrogance where it comes to that and he believes that you know that things should be
made to go his own way.
CP: regardless of how they are
WG: and you know like many people in the party he has an expectation that he’ll
Katie Snape: may just say something
WG: just a minute while I put it on Speaker yeah hold on
CP; Right
peerage
KS: hi Chris I have a theory, I kind of believe the conspiracy theory that Steve and Nigel are up for the
CP: yeah
KS; that the party will go then and the two of them will be in the House of Lords that’s all I have to
say
WG: it should be that the arrogance of being in charge to some extent makes him feel that he can
get away with anything, by shouting louder because he’s watched Nigel doing it for years and it has
worked well for Nigel
CP: yeah, it seems like he’s been playing the nice, nice policeman hard policeman in between
WG: yeah
CP: yet plays MR soppy happy go lucky but then just shouts every now an again in fact the actual
erm vote for the constitution on that weekend in Skegness when the Spring Conference was on,
WG: yeah
CP: erm I had not met anybody who had voted for it and we had a meeting at the had a meal an
Indian and it was 30 of us on the Saturday night
WG: yeah
CP: and half the table voted for it who were all, Tim Akars, Roger Bird the other half hadn’t they had
a meeting at the next day with 40 people nobody voted for it, and I have not met anybody since
who voted for it. So for the constitution to go through with a 96% vote it was more unbelievable to
say the least.
WG: yeah
CP: you just can’t believe it
WG: The things are just
CP; so you know whether they rigged it to a degree but then not a lot of people voted and that’s
why the constitution went through massively because they put so many votes in but obviously the
actual voting votes were less than they imagined
WG: yeah
CP; and that’s why it came out 96% because I have not met anybody yet who has voted for it apart
from 15 people sat around the table on the Saturday night.
WG: yep yep
CP: and it just goes when you go to previous NEC elections erm when I got elected Steves message
to me was, you can tell we don’t rig the elections because you’ve come top, and my answer Steve
was, well that doesn’t mean that you have not rigged it, I said you probably had rigged it but just
means that I am more popular than you thought I was,
WG: yeah yeah
CP: you know it wouldn’t surprise me that he’s not got 6 or 800 voting slips out there that they just
mysteriously put in every time.
WG: yeah yeah
CP: which is enough normally to top the balance of the scales
WG: yeah yeah
CP: yawning Sorry for troubling you Will, its er, I have heard about the peerage thing with Nigel and
I have heard the fact that we are supposed to be doing a pact with Tories in 2015.
WG: yeah
CP: which will kill the party
WG: yeah
CP: and there is no two ways about it anybody North of Watford won’t vote for us and
WG: and this is where it goes wrong for them I don’t think they necessarily have the power to do
such a thing
CP: they haven’t with a strong NEC, no, but if they have got an NEC of, you’ve got to look at what’s
happened with the national voting thing for the MEP selection
WG: yeah yea
CP: the reason they’ve got away with it because half the NEC have been looking to get on the MEP
band wagon not to push the region forward, just as a career opportunity and that that’s what’s
happened, they have got a lot of people there that have been looking for MEP election and so they
would sell their grandmother down the line for the ticket
WG: yes of course
CP: and that’s why the vote’s MP’s have been sat there happily voting along.
WG: yeah yeah of course
CP: so that’s what they are relying on is the complacent NEC that’s not gonna kick up a fuss
WG: yeah
CP: and that’s why three times its been on the NEC agenda about the coalition and three times Steve
has let it go off without a vote on it.
WG: yeah yeah
CP: erm and the same thing is at the NEC meeting in May when the actual MEP selection was
discussed and Steve quickly rushed through a list of names but it wasn’t put in front of people, that’s
when I stated quite clearly the fact that we shouldn’t have any paid employees as part of the
selection procedure and that’s including you Steve, and I said he stated he was on a long holiday
with nothing to do
WG: yes yes
CP; the reason he’s didn’t put the selection the selection and the assessment panel to the vote
because I said that as it had been agreed by people at my end of the table that he realised he
wouldn’t get away with it. But yet he has done it subsequently through the litigation by MIke
Nattrass,
WG: yeh
CP; he used that as a tool, to whip others into oh yes we will agree it or we will get an injunction
WG: yeah
CP; Never mind Will sorry for troubling you, I just thought about that afterwards last night so erm
obviously that was a big issue
WG; yes okay
CP; okay hopefully best of luck and I will meet you again in the future sometime when you get on
and get yourself sorted out
WG; yeah yeah cool cheers Bye
CP; Bye
.
Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W)
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