Farage’s political background of Fascism & racism as a school bully & racist! The boy is naturally the fatjher to the man!
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Ukip Leader Nigel Farage Accused Of Being A School ‘Fascist’ And ‘Bully’ Ahead Of Conference (VIDEO)
By Paul Vale Posted: 19/09/2013 21:12 BST | Updated: 19/09/2013 21:44 BST
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In an embarrassing revelation for Nigel Farage, a letter has emerged in which the Ukip leader is described as a “bully” and a “fascist” by teachers at his South London school, forcing the party boss to defend himself against the accusations.
Revealed by Channel 4 News, the letter was written in June 1981 by Chloe Deakin, an English teacher at the prestigious Dulwich College where Farage was a pupil.
In the missive, sent to the school’s headmaster David Emms, Deakin implores her boss to reconsider appointing the future Ukip leader a prefect, citing a recent staff meeting in which Farage was described as a “fascist”, adding that there was “considerable reaction” from Deakin’s colleagues to the appointment.
The letter adds: “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect.
“Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”
On Thursday Farage said the notion of him singing Hitler Youth songs was “baloney” while rejecting allegations that he made racist remarks. When confronted by Channel 4 News, the Ukip leader admitted he’d done “some ridiculous things,” adding: “Not necessarily racist things. It depends how you define it.”
He added: “You’ve got to remember that ever since 1968 up until the last couple of years, we’ve not been able in this country, intelligently to discuss immigration, to discuss integration, it’s all been a buried subject and that’s happened through academia, it’s happened through politics and the media.”
Farage was told that fellow pupils remember him making racist comments, to which he replied: “Oh well I might have wound some of them up too. All through the 1970s and 80s I would counter any received wisdom on any subject quite deliberately – I wasn’t alone in doing that. It was a very political school. We had people who were members of very left-wing organisations, we also had boys at school who were members of hard-right organisations.”
Farage has denied accusations he was a ‘fascist’ at schoolMore from the Press Association:
Bob Jope, a former English teacher who taught Farage, alleged staff made accusations that Farage voiced views that were not simply right-wing but “quite clearly racist”.
Jope told Channel 4: “To some extent, you might say the accusation from some staff was that Nigel had voiced views that were not simply right wing, as nobody’s going to object to a place on the spectrum, but views that were quite clearly racist, and those racist views were considered again by the staff who had heard them – some at first hand, some had heard about them – were considered to be not the views that a school should tolerate.”
Farage will speak in London tomorrow at Ukip’s conference. Addressing criticism for failing to deal strongly enough with party candidates found to have posted extremist views online, he will concede that being “the most independent-minded body of men and women” ever seen in British politics “presents occasional difficulties”.
Quick Poll
Should Farage’s alleged schoolboy antics be held against him?
Farage will say: “We have some people with overactive Facebook accounts. And we have some who make public pronouncements that I would not always choose myself.”
He appeared to include among them both senior MEP Godfrey Bloom and party treasurer Stuart Wheeler, who have courted controversy over public remarks. Bloom was criticised for an attack on Britain sending aid to “Bongo Bongo Land” and been forced to deny claims no “self-respecting businessman” would hire a woman of child-bearing age were sexist.
Ex-Tory donor Wheeler also denied being sexist after arguing that women are not as good as men at bridge, poker and chess in an argument against quotas for female board members.
Farage will say: “I had the most blistering row with Godfrey Bloom in a Strasbourg restaurant the other day. He wants to fight for his beliefs and I was saying that we need to stick to the big messages. I don’t always agree on policy with Stuart Wheeler either.
“If the choice is between our being browbeaten through political correctness to stay within the current received wisdoms or to be a party of free debate then be in no doubt we must be the party of radical alternatives and free speech. There is however one important qualification. We oppose racism. We oppose extremism. We oppose sectarianism of the left or right.”
See the video where Farage seeks to justify his background of racism & fascism: CLICK HERETo view the whole of the original article + videos,
Channel 4 News obtains a letter about Ukip leader Nigel Farage, from his days as a schoolboy, in which teachers are quoted as accusing him of being “racist” and “fascist”.
In the late 1970s and early eighties the Ukip leader was a pupil at Dulwich College in south London, one of Britain’s most prestigious schools. Channel 4 News has uncovered strong evidence that teachers at Dulwich thought Nigel Farage was “racist”, and “fascist” or “neo-fascist”.
We have a long letter (below) written in June 1981 by a young English teacher, Chloe Deakin, begging the master of the college (head teacher), David Emms, to reconsider his decision to appoint Farage as a prefect. Deakin did not know Farage personally but her letter includes an account of what was said by staff at their annual meeting, held a few days earlier, to discuss new prefects.
The letter says that when one teacher said Farage was “a fascist, but that was no reason why he would not make a good prefect,” there was “considerable reaction” from colleagues.
The letter continues: “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”
Political and racial tensions
1981 was a time of huge political tensions over racial matters, especially locally in south London. The National Front held marches in the area which led to violent clashes, and during the 1981 Brixton riots, not far away, part of the grounds of Dulwich College were used as an operational base by the police. It was only six weeks after the Brixton riots that David Emms appointed 17-year-old Nigel Farage as a prefect.
In his memoirs, Fighting Bull, Farage refers to the row about him being made a prefect, but says teachers were hostile because he was a great admirer of Enoch Powell, the former Conservative who had long spoken out against immigration.
The staff were fed up with his cheekiness and rudeness. They wanted me to expel him, but I saw his potential, made him a prefect, and I was proved right. David Emms
But Chloe Deakin’s account suggests Farage was expressing opinions well to the right of Powell. She gave a copy of the document to a colleague, Bob Jope, who has kept it ever since, and often used it in subsequent lessons over the years as an example of good, powerful prose-writing (though he blanked out the names). Jope’s memory of the prefects’ meeting concurs with Deakin’s contemporary account. But not everyone shares Deakin and Jope’s concerns.
‘Naughtiness, not racism’
Terry Walsh, who was then deputy master at Dulwich (ie. deputy head), says Farage was well known for provoking people, especially left-wing English teachers who had no sense of humour.
The former master of Dulwich David Emms, the man who appointed Farage and received Chloe Deakin’s letter, says he has no memory of the meeting or the letter. But he agrees with his former deputy: “It was naughtiness, not racism,” Emms told me on Wednesday. “I didn’t probe too closely into that naughtiness, but the staff were fed up with his cheekiness and rudeness. They wanted me to expel him, but I saw his potential, made him a prefect, and I was proved right.”
But several Dulwich old boys have told me they recall Farage making racist remarks as a pupils, and voicing support for right-wing groups, though none has been willing to say so publicly.
Other contemporaries, however, say Farage’s views at that time were merely Thatcherite. And many former boys say they have no recollection of Farage expressing political views at all.
Nigel Farage claimed to me today that he was shown Deakin’s letter many years ago. He admits he was a “troublemaker” at school who “wound people up” with all sorts of views. He says some of the things he said may have been perceived as racist, but certainly weren’t.
Of course I said some ridiculous things, not necessarily racist things. It depends how you define it.Nigel Farage
“I did say things that would offend deeply,” he says. “And there were certainly two or three members of the English staff I made arguments against, that I didn’t necessarily believe in.
“But any accusation I was ever involved in far right politics is utterly untrue.”
What about the Hitler Youth Songs? “That’s silly,” Farage said.
“I don’t know any Hitler youth songs, in English or German.”
He added: “Of course I said some ridiculous things, not necessarily racist things. It depends how you define it. You’ve got to remember that ever since 1968 up until the last couple of years, we’ve not been able in this country, intelligently to discuss immigration, to discuss integration, it’s all been a buried subject and that’s happened through academia, it’s happened through politics and the media.”
We approached Chloe Deakin. She says she recalls discussing the matter, but has no memory of her letter. But her words from 1981 argued that making Farage a prefect would have far-reaching consequences: “First, it will vastly increase his own confidence, and sense of self-justification. Secondly, he will have the privilege of listing his appointment as a prefect at Dulwich College in his university and other applications.”
Many will argue that it is irrelevant what a teenager did at school more than 30 years ago, but Ukip has a problem showing it is not racist.
Ukip, which holds its annual conference at Central Hall, Westminster on Friday and on Saturday says it refuses membership to anyone who has ever belonged to groups such as the National Front or British Movement.
As I Predicted Mike Nattrass IS Joining The extremist Nationalist & racist EDP! Something of ‘out of the fire & into another’ as Nattrass returns to his roots of the extremist Nationalist & racist New Britain Party he WAS in!
OR NOT as conflicting media stories show!
OR perhaps more aptly – ‘Much ado about nothing’!
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Hi,it is hard to tell who is the most damaged by this liason, whether it is the discreditted and stunningly inept Mike Nattrass, whose command of political savvy has always been apparent or The strangely named extremist nationalist E$nglish Democrat Party.
Nattrass does the hokey cokey with consumate ease as one minute he denounces the odious New Britain Party (now closed down) to join UKIP.
Nattrass then joins with Nigel Farage and is up to his neck in tyhe fiddles and fixes that are so prevalent in the cult he has joined – with his hair trigger temper and foul language Nattrass shows himself to be a bullying yob who had had the good fortune to make money selling out a p[art of his business in the days when building societies were handing out other peoples’ money like drunken sailors to buy into estate agencies, I understand.
Yes Nattrass after years of struggle did make serious money but his subsequent antics have seemingly largely depleted his pot.
He claims to have given around £200,000 to support UKIP but this is again spin as his payments would seem to have been largely to buy his position on the EU gravy train & a lucrative position where clearly very little skill or ability was needed or perhaps more fairly, was ever visible!
Negotiations with the EDP have been ongoing over many years and some time ago he was a speaker at their annual conference, where wiser political heads prevailed talking him out of joining them!
The farce continued with Nattrass’ tireless support for and conivance with the criminal UKIP MEP Tom Wise even after he was found guilty of stealing from the public purse and was sentenced to 2 years in prison!
Nattrass joined the Pan EU EFD Group of holocaust deniers, anti homosexuals, anti Jewish, extremists and violent racists continuing his Hokey Cokey when he followed the moral stance of Nikki Sinclaire and quit the vile group the Farage cult had joined.
It was only when it was rumoured that his wife Joyce had tossed him out of the marital bed & home allegedly for being all t5oo willing to share his bed with others that he made4 the self serving decision to rejoin the EFD – Many believed this was to increase his chances of regaining a lucrative cash flow from the public purse t6o fund his excesses after 2015 once more placed as an MEP by the corrupt UKIP selection scams.
This was not to be after having written his withering excoriation of Farage and his cult when he had firtst resigned from the EFD.
Then we have all seen his ‘antics’ as he threw his toys out of his pram when he realised that the corrupt UKIP process that had worked so well for him in the past getting him elected as an MEP despite his singular lack of talents or ability, which he displayed over many years it wwas now working against him, as he was summarily dumped as a candidate.
Even the timing of his resignation from UKIP was amateurishly botched by seeking publicity on Channel 4 a week too early. His resignation from UKIP was of little significance to Channel 4 but they could not resist the cache of an MEP resigning from the party that had placed him live on air, though they rather botcherd their USP!
Now we have the spectacle of an announcement in a relatively obscure local paper and even that is a day early for any effect on the Farage feste to be held in London on Saturday & Su8nday – when clearly the levers of power could have been pulled to get his announcement on major network news during UKIP’s conference – publicity which as something of a media whore Nattrass clearly craves and his new best friends in the extremist EDP desperately need!
One has to wonder which will inflict the greatest damage on eachother in the long run, the EDP or Nattrass!
MEP Mike Nattrass to join English Democrats Party after quitting UKIP
Mr Nattrass will stand as the EDP’s West Midlands candidate in the European elections next May.
But fellow West Midlands MEP Nikki Sinclaire, also a former UKIP member, slammed his decision to join an “extremist” party.
Robin Tilbrook, the EDP chairman, said: “I am delighted to welcome Mike Nattrass as a member of the English Democrats and look forward to getting him re-elected as an English Democrat MEP.
“Over the coming year Scottish Independence will be in focus as they face the Scottish Independence referendum.
“The English Democrats are England’s equivalent to that party and our conference will debate further one of our key policy proposals, independence for England.”
However, Ms Sinclaire said: “I am saddened to hear that Mike has today joined the English Democrats.
“Since 2010 the English Democrats, have been infiltrated by those deserting the infighting of the BNP, who have been in meltdown since the General Election and now contain and tolerate some of the most undesirable and disgusting people in our society.’’
‘’By joining them, Mike is damaging his legacy and reputation. All his good work will now be overlooked because of the company he has chosen to keep.’’
The English Democrats launched in 2002 and campaigns for St George’s Day to be England’s national holiday; for Jerusalem to be England’s National Anthem; for a Referendum to leave the EU; for an end to mass immigration; for the Cross of St George to be flown on all public buildings in England.
Interestingly even this descends into farce when you read the article below – though I am aware that both Mike Nattrass and his wife Joyce met with the EDP leaders in Solihull to arrange a contract between them.
Interestingly the lunch meeting failed to reach an agreement.
I did say that Nattrass was apparently seeking to muddy the waters!
Time will give a definitive answer to the contradctory reports!
Mike Nattrass denies joining English Democrats after UKIP exit
Mr Nattrass has represented the West Midlands in Europe since 2004
A former deputy leader of the UK Independence Party who quit the party last week has ruled out joining the English Democrats.
Mike Nattrass, a West Midlands MEP, confirmed he would speak at the party’s conference this weekend.
The English Democrats’ chairman, Robin Tilbrook, earlier claimed the ex-UKIP politician would join his party – becoming its first MEP.
Mr Nattrass left UKIP after 15 years in protest at Nigel Farage’s leadership.
He accused his former boss of running a “totalitarian regime” and excluding those who disagreed with him.
‘Delighted’ A press release issued by the English Democrats earlier had suggested Mr Nattrass “wanted” to join the party and would be their lead candidate in the West Midlands in the 2014 Euro elections.
Chairman Mr Tilbrook was quoted saying: “I am delighted to welcome Mike Nattrass as a member of the English Democrats.”
But Mr Nattrass later wrote in an email: “I am not going to join the English Democrats… however I will be speaking at their conference in Leicester on Saturday, on the subject of HS2.”
Mr Tilbrook told the BBC there would still be a major announcement on Saturday, but that he was “not as clear” as he had been on what the announcement would be.
His party campaign for immediate withdrawal from the European Union and for the establishment of an English parliament.
Originally the English National Party when he founded it in 1998, it achieved its first major electoral success when its candidate won the Doncaster mayoral election in 2009
UKIP’s Determination to Self Destruct in Lincolnshire & its Timeline!!
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Hi,this story or parts of it is replicated not only through UKIP’s history as its leadership clique and its claque fight like ferrets in a sack, but also it is replicated across Britain – ensuring UKIP is seen to be unfit for purpose and may account for the catastrophic and consistent failure of the party in domestic elections.
Timeline: The rise and troubles of Lincolnshire UKIP
From winning their first ever 16 seats on Lincolnshire County Council in May, UKIP in Lincolnshire had to deal with racism allegations and suspensions, leading up to the party losing its official opposition status after six councillors split from the party in September. How did it get to this point?
May 3, 2013:UKIP win their first 16 seats for councillors on Lincolnshire County Council in the local elections, as Conservatives lost overall control after winning just 36 seats and Labour won 12 seats. The turnout was just 29% county-wide. In Lincoln the turnout was even lower at 26%.
May 9, 2013: Conservative County Council leader Martin Hill agrees on a coalition to maintain control with Liberal Democrats Reg Shore, John Marriot and Pat O’Connor, and Independents Chris Brewis, Bill Aron and Angela Newton.
May 10, 2013: Chris Pain, UKIP’s East Midlands regional chairman and Wainfleet and Burgh councillor, is voted by fellow party members as the leader of UKIP on Lincolnshire County Council. He nominates Robin Hunter-Clarke and Victoria Ayling as his deputy leaders. UKIP become the second largest group on the council, the majority opposition.
UKIP Councillor Chris Pain. Photo: Steve Smailes for The Lincolnite
May 11, 2013: Chris Pain confidently says he will stand for MP at the next general election for Boston and Skegness against Conservative MP Mark Simmonds, squashing rumours that UKIP leader Nigel Farage will stand there given the party’s success in the area.
May 17, 2013: All 16 UKIP councillors refuse to sign an anti-racism declaration at the County Council annual meeting. The document is meant to ensure all Lincolnshire residents are treated equality and have access to the same services. The motion is passed by 60 other councillors.
May 23, 2013: Lincolnshire Police begin investigating claims that racist comments were posted on the Facebook pages of UKIP Lincolnshire leader Chris Pain and two other UKIP councillors, Alan Jesson and Tiggs Keywood-Wainwright. All three strongly denied making the comments and Chris Pain said his account had been hacked. The issue was brought to police attention by someone from the County Council.
June 4, 2013: Chris Pain is forced to step down from his East Midlands regional chairman role over the alleged racist comments posted on Facebook. UKIP’s National Executive Committee (NEC) said it was holding its judgement on until police complete their investigation. Chris Pain remains leader of the UKIP group on the County Council.
June 12, 2013: Chris Pain insists sanctions imposed on him by UKIP are just a formality while he clears his name and says he submitted an application to stand as an MEP representing the party in next year’s European election.
July 31, 2013: Chris Pain confirms his deputies Victoria Ayling and Robin Hunter-Clarke have been stripped of their roles in the party on the County Council. Councillor Ayling says “There are question marks over the process taken with this,” and that UKIP are investigating the matter. Tattershall Castle Councillor Colin Mair becomes the new deputy.
UKIP Councillor Tiggs Keywood-Wainwright
September 5, 2013: Tiggs Keywood-Wainwright gains the Fenside seat for UKIP on Boston Borough Council with 162 votes. The by-election was called after English Democrats Councillor Eliott Fountain was ousted for not attending any council meetings for over six months.
September 6, 2013: Tiggs Keywood-Wainwright, and Bob McAuley, elected at a by-election in May, form a UKIP group on Boston Borough Council. Former Independent McAuley stood as a UKIP candidate in a by-election in the Staniland South ward following the death of Conservative councillor Paul Mould. He is leader of the new UKIP group with Keywood-Wainwright as deputy leader. These are the first two UKIP seats on Boston Borough Council.
September 9, 2013: Lincolnshire Police drop their investigation into the alleged racist comments from Chris Pain and two other UKIP Lincolnshire councillors. Police say there is a possibility the councillors’ Facebook accounts were hacked, but there was not enough evidence to trace whoever posted the comments. “Fictional police and CSI shows often depict investigations where information in cyberspace can be traced instantly, but the reality is very different,” the force says.
September 10, 2013: Chris Pain is suspended as UKIP leader on the County Council under the emergency powers of the chairman of UKIP, after he wrote a complaint against UKIP national chairman Steve Crowther, which might be subject of legal action. A disciplinary committee will be sitting within the next 10 days for Chris Pain. Deputy Colin Mair is appointed as acting UKIP leader in Lincolnshire.
September 11, 2013: A majority of Lincolnshire UKIP councillors sign a letter of no confidence to County Council chief executive Tony McArdle. With majority written support from his group, Colin Mair takes over as UKIP leader on the council on a temporary basis until a formal election is held. Pain remains a councillor for Wainfleet and Burgh.
September 12, 2013: Chris Pain forms a breakaway group from UKIP, called UKIP Lincolnshire, along with councillor Alan Jesson.
September 13, 2013: Councillors Tiggs Keywood-Wainwright, Richard Fairman, Bob McAuley and John Beaver also join the breakaway UKIP Lincolnshire group, which has in total six seats. UKIP are demoted from the majority opposition on Lincolnshire County Council with only 10 seats left. Labour form the official opposition with 12 of 77 seats in total.
September 18, 2013: Chris Pain is removed from UKIP following a meeting of the party’s emergency disciplinary committee.
lareinaflamenca (signed in using yahoo) “Yet more signs of the stranglehold the current “management” and their appointed cronies are imploding the party from within. UAF reigns supreme. The current “leadership” – and I don’t necessarily mean Farage – is engaged in creating positions for its like minded cronies who make the jibes about UKIP being “far right” look ridiculous.Democracy no longer exists within UKIP. If these people don’t like you, they get rid or make your life a nightmare by using their UAF pals who infest Facebook and Twitter to hack and clone your account – then make up vicious lies about you. There are uneasy allegiances with a group of nutters who go by the name of “EDLnews” – and they are not EDL, they are solely engaged with “outing” people they THINK are ex EDL and BNP, currently proscribed under the party’s constitution. Of course these numpties usually get it all wrong but it just suits their purpose anyway.Wait till the REAL truth comes out soon. Some much less than squeaky clean types – and they are definitely NOT right wingers. Worse still, THEY are the ones making up lies about everyone else to cover their own tracks.” Reply · 3 ·· September 14 at 6:05am
Anna-Marie Crampton · Top Commenter I was one of those that UKIP clearly “didn’t like” and “didn’t fit the mold” when i ran as a candidate in the CC elections in East Sussex last May…
UKIP management’s cronies hacked in to my Facebook account (allegedly), created a ghost or clone account using my name, photograph and my email to access my main account… wrote a whole load of anti semitic rubbish in my name which no thanks to their useless press department, resulted in a nationwide indeed, world wide negative press campaign against me which has carried on over many months.
The last publication that i am aware of, with negative comments related to myself was just a month ago in The Sunday Times!
They deliberately tried to wreck my reputation and standing in the community and possibly make me a target of extremists who assumed (wrongly) that i am anti semitic and a crazed conspiracy theorist… they then, suspended me.
It was a vicious, nasty, reckless and dangerous attempt to discredit me. It was a difficult time but, i weathered it and held my head high.
I still ran in the CC Elections and indeed my colleague and i did incredibly well. Why? Because the local community and indeed UKIP branch members didn’t for one minute believe the negative publicity cooked up by these vicious but incredibly ambitious thugs within UKIP… Shameful.
I have since resigned from UKIP and am convinced that UKIPs upper management were behind this witch hunt. There is no way that UKIP are committed to free speech or democracy. I believe they are just another right wing controlled opposition party who are supporting and abetting the establishment’s agenda.
Some of grassroots remain in denial but, when the truth comes out and it will, they are in for an unpleasant awakening when they realise they have all been well and truly used.. and conned.
There is no loyalty within UKIP, no respect and no thanks for hard work or loyal support by its members, candidates and councillors… in fact, from what i have witnessed first hand, grassroots are lucky to receive so much as the crumbs from management’s table. Reply · 4 ·· September 14 at 8:34am
Claire Khaw · Top Commenter · Satirist at Political Entertainment Anna-Marie Crampton The trouble is that all members of all parties are routinely exploited and abused. Reply ·· September 16 at 12:53pm
Susan Lockwood · Top Commenter · Co founder at Buzzy Bees Cleaning Services Good luck to Chris, always hard working, upfront and instantly likeable. Much to his credit..it’s also helped in his downfall. His only handicap as far as I see it is that he was too popular! Reply · 3 ·· September 15 at 10:50am
The story told, of her experiences, by Anna-Marie Crampton seems to be replicated by that of Gabi Coleman, whose story is,, told elsewhere on this web blog!
The incompetence of UKIP leadership and the internicine squabbling amongst the claque is further displayed by the fact that their misshandling of the squabbling has now spilled into all areas of the press & media as with this article from The BBC:
Lincolnshire UKIP councillor Chris Pain expelled from party
Chris Pain was elected to Lincolnshire County Council in May along with 15 other UKIP councillors
The former leader of UKIP on Lincolnshire County Council has been expelled from the party.
Councillor Chris Pain was removed following a hearing in front of a UKIP: disciplinary panel in London.
Details of the reasons for his expulsion have not been disclosed, but Mr Pain said he was in dispute with party chairman Steve Crowther.
Mr Pain said he “feels sickened” at the way he has been treated and planned to appeal against the decision.
‘Dynamite to crack walnut’ Mr Pain, a councillor for Wainfleet and Burgh, said: “After nine years of hard work, and achieving some of the best results in the history of the party, they are throwing me out.
“It seems like they’ve used a stick of dynamite to crack a walnut.”
He added: “I’ve always thought the party was just and fair – but this raises some grave concerns about the leadership.”
UKIP is yet to comment on the decision to remove Mr Pain.
The party gained 16 seats on Lincolnshire County Council in May, causing the Conservatives to lose overall control and form a coalition with the Liberal Democrats and several independents.
Earlier this month, following suspension by the party, Mr Pain was removed as leader of the group on the county council.
He then formed a breakaway group with five other members under the banner of “UKIP Lincolnshire”.
Councillor Colin Mair, who represents Tattershall Castle, was appointed acting leader in the county.
Writer for Trending Central and Contributing Editor for The Libertarian
Nigel Farage Will Never Be PM:
Why Do People Still Support Ukip?
Posted: 17/09/2013 00:00
Ukip is a spent political force. Despite the seemingly endless news carnival of its rise, the bubble has burst. Much like the idiotic, and entirely unreflected in reality, notion of “Cleggmania” – which gave struggling news channels something to fill up a schedule – the fortunes of Ukip’s leadership coterie will soon crash to Earth once more.
Neil Hamilton, who (as I remarked earlier) is the scandal-oozing shadow of a sleazy Tory past, continues to hang around the National Executive Council like an unbearable odour. He has not been selected for the Party’s candidacy for MEP next year, but he has been promised a “key position” in Ukip’s future organisation. Farage certainly looks after his friends – where have we heard that before?
There is no way that Nigel Farage will ever end up in Downing Street – voters at large do not respond to his boozy bolshiness. But still, pathetically, Ukip supporters pretend that their struggling ‘movement’ has a long term political future.
Ukip has had its share of scandals; with fascist would be councillors, a starting stifling of free speech in its youth organisation, general – hysterical – duplicity in immigration statistics, and insane budgetary predictions. Despite this, enamoured obsessives continue to people online message boards, chanting almost as one: “Ukip is the only way!” and other moronic sentiments to that effect.
All of this support will be useless anyway. In the end, the new socially liberal Tories will surpass Ukip at the next general election. People do not want to live in the country Ukip ceaselessly promotes; and perhaps when ‘kippers realise this, they might put their efforts towards something of actual importance, and stop trying so enthusiastically to hand Ed Miliband the keys to Number Ten.
Another instance of collective ignorance within Ukip is that relating to the Exchequer. Supporters do not seem to realise that their party of choice would bankrupt the nation. This is in direct contrast to all of the opportunistic talk about fiscal ‘common sense’ – and cutting government spending. Ukip accounting not only makes Farage and co. look economically illiterate, but also downright hypocritical to boot.
If “common sense” means endorsing all of the ugliest and nastiest prejudices of the “common man”, then Ukip can be seen to be doing a fine old job. Sexist monstrosity (and celebrated drunk) Godfrey Bloom has been at it again, this time describing the places to which we give aid as ‘Bongo Bongo Land’.
What is particularly revealing about the clip, is that, despite the supposed humorous intent of Mr. Bloom’s remark, no one (even in a room full of Ukip voters) laughed at his quip about the grasping foreigners. So not only is he someone who considers ethnic stereotyping to be reasonable in modern political discourse, he is also an awful raconteur.
But pledging a massive increase in things like defence spending, and then promising to pay for it all by scraping popular bogeymen like the department responsible for our reaction to climate change (which is of course “a myth”), or the terrifying prospect of international development aid, and obviously the ubiquitous but unnamed quangos, is not economic policy. It is in fact squalid and unsustainable populism, aided immensely by the number of credulous voters out there, and also the fact that this drivel will never actually be put to the test.
The Ukip vote thrives on ignorance. It helps that few people seem to know about the elite past of the Dulwich College-educated Farage, or the fact that Hamilton appeared in pantomime after his disastrous stint as an MP. It helps that people don’t seem to know that Ukip is economical with the truth of migration statistics, and their plans for the financial future of the nation.
It certainly helps that Ukip members don’t seem to know who isolated the actually are in British politics: isolated from the libertarians with whom they self-identify, and isolated from a good deal of the salt of the Earth, ordinary-bloke-down-the-pub sorta guys party strategists moon over.
In reality, Ukip is a political con trick, to believe that it has any sustainable political future after 2015 takes more of a sense of humour than I can credit men like Farage – who, in spite of the faux bonhomie is more calculating than most seem to think. He knows, in short, that he has no chance – and so hopes to push fearful Tories into a rapid lurch to the far-Right, before the curtain falls away, and the shocked audience discover he has made off with the rabbit, and Bloom has ensnared the glamorous assistant.
For the record – despite the obfuscation, dissembling and outright lies of those trying to hide the truth about UKIP as it is – It is of absolutely no consequence how many read this blog or this web site or my Twitter or my postings around the internet and elsewhere, just like UKIP membership numbers are of no consequence just as it is irrelevant how many watch a UKIP video in America, China or even France – it is a matter of the caliber of those who read the entries NOT numbers.
This web site and all its entries are posted as an archive and if ONE person of influence reads it whether media, politician or individual and it leads to cleaning up & professionalising UKIP & giving it some ethical gravitas and consequence thus making it fit for purpose as a party, which British citizens would be proud to join to Leave-The-EU, it has served its purpose.
This blog is an archive available to all and made as accurate as possible, clearly differentiating between my opinions and values and factual reportage of UKIP.
As is clear: Any error of fact is always corrected, if brought to my attention, and comments are always published – for as long as they are compliant with the terms clearly stated as follows:
We welcome comments but reserve the right to moderate & refuse libelous or offensive comments and those we choose to delete when written by unidentifiable individuals hidden in anonymity in a cowardly manner to defame or abuse.
No comment has EVER been barred or deleted, which is genuine & clearly authored by a named & identifiable individual.
You will note many comments made have been commented on and even corrected by the blog owner.
We welcome genuine comments.
From my conversations with Team Junius I gather their aims were largely similar, as was their aim to inform and provide an archive of facts in support of UKIP becoming fit for purpose to lead to Leave-The-EU, which clearly it currently is not, as it tends to represent its own personal ambitions rather than British self determination, values and ethics.
At the moment Junius team have largely stopped addressing UKIP’s problems, in the belief that it is unlikely that UKIP will have any consequential influence on domestic politics after their failure in the local elections of 2013 when out of over 1,700 seats in which they stood candidates a mere 147 were elected and already they are falling by the wayside and or resigning due in part to lack of vetting, lack of professionalism and in some cases over racism, inappropriate behaviour and convictions for theft etc.
UKIP’s achievements are so clearly the product of a single individual that Junius has stood back from their role exposing UKIP’s ineptitude and dishonesty as unfit for purpose as to continue putting their own jobs at risk is no longer of sufficient consequence in the light of UKIP’s failure to obtain MPs, Police Crime Commissioners, Mayors or any other role of any gravitas or significance in domestic politics in 20 years.
Team Junius, I am told, possibly re-enter the position of political commentary if the situation alters and UKIP becomes of greater relevance in UK domestic policy rather than self serving also rans!
For more FACTS regarding the accuracy of this site and my postings elsewhere read CLICK HERE
For more FACTS & information about me, including contact data, IF it will help you understand the FACTS this web site and my many other postings cover CLICK HERE
I NEVER post in cowardly anonymity, nor obfuscate my identity as I believe it is an ethical matter of integrity to stand by ones comments. If unsure or deliberately misleading one should NOT demean oneself by dishonesty hiding one’s identity as a coward or a traitor would.
For the record I have NEVER had personal aspirations politically, nor have I ever stood for office; further I have NEVER joined or been a member or been funded by any political party, faction or similar organisation.
I trust these facts help clarify details for the ill informed and the outright liars who seek to defame me, my blogs, postings and web sites.
The Mike Nattrass Self Harm exhibition on Channel 4 announcing his Resignation from the party as its corruption is no longer working in his favour!!
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Hi,I do apologise for not bringing this eMail and the details of Mike Nattrass’ resignation from UKIP to you when I knew but I was under an embargo to hold back the news until it was announced on Channel 4 News!
I did however give a few minutes of warning on Twitter so that interested parties could be sure to watch Mike Nattrass make rather a fool of himself – having supported the corruption of UKIP for as long as he was personally able to benefit from it – now in what seems to be sour grapes at the corruption being used against him rather than for him now has him denouncing the Farage cult of which he has been an active participant and beneficiary for several years!
From: mike nattrass [mailto:ukipmep@hotmail.co.uk] Sent: 12 September 2013 19:53 To: STEVE CROWTHER; JAMIE in EU; NIGEL; NIGEL the real. Subject: MEP’S RESIGNATION FROM UKIP
TO : S.CROWTHER Esq, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY
AND ALSO TO N.FARAGE Esq, THE LEADER OF THE UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY. 12 September 2014
Dear Sirs,
MY RESIGNATION FROM UKIP
I have been a member of UKIP since 1997 and am a previous Party Chairman and Deputy Leader and have represented the West Midlands of England as a UKIP MEP since 2004.
Sadly the current antics of the Leader bring to my mind such words and phrases as “Gerrymandering”, “Totalitarian”, “President of Zimbabwe” and “making Machiavelli look like an amateur” and the credibility of a party proclaiming democracy, freedom of speech and fair play has been destroyed.
The UKIP selection process has been twisted and redesigned to elect Cronies of Nigel Farage and Cronies of Cronies, UKIP rules (the normal understanding by the NEC of the rules) were simply broken to suit this purpose.
Those who will not give Nigel Farage any resistance in what he does, the “Chosen Cronies,” are selected high on the lists and those high profile persons, in all regions, who may question him, were taken off. This process will enhance the objective, which is not to distract members’ votes away from “the Chosen Cronies”
Then the final straw. This week Nigel Farage advised the UKIP MEPs (including myself) that, no matter how the members vote, the NEC can change the order!! So even if they do not vote for his Cronies the NEC will confirm them as candidates. He also confirmed that this process had already been applied to the list at the London Assembly Elections.
I shall serve my constituents as an Independent MEP and will consider standing at the 2014 election and shall always stand against Totalitarianism and the EU.
This deterioration of our party is a great sadness to me, as I have received great support from “the real UKIP members” who have worked so hard and have become my friends. I can only thank all those people, some of whom are no longer living, for those good years.
Yours faithfully,
Mike
My TWITTERS on the subject of Mike Nattrass renunciation of UKIP:
@NASA announced that @NASAVoyager after 36 yrs & 11B miles has reached interstellar space. See Carl Sagan’s ‘Small Blue Dot’ on #YouTube6 hours ago.
#Mike_Nattrass‘s only hope of recognition in election is to revisit his racist New Britain roots & link with the now desperate ED & ex BNP! 6 hours ago.
#Mike_Nattrass made a complete prune of himself on Channel 4 News. Totally outsmarted by #UKIP! Only hope now to go back to his racist roots 6 hours ago.
I believe that Mike Nattrass is most likely to stand as a candidate for The English Democrats to improve his, now all but impossible, attempt to climb back on to the gravy train. This will be something of a return to his racist roots in The New Britain party alongside the notable ex BNP members that the ED have gained as the BNP collapsed!
Mike Nattrass very nearly joined The EDP some time back when he spoke at their conference in glowing terms but was advised against it at the time by more intelligent political thinkers and campaigners.
Mike Nattrass has supported the corruption in UKIP all but constantly, in his own interest but as a friend of the party he has be most untrustworthy and no assett.
Were UKIP seeking to clean up its leadership it would obviously have been wise to get rid of Nattrass at the first opportunity – however he has saved them the effort with his self serving and petulant departure.
What Excuse Will UKIP Leadership Use Next to Suspend Councillor Chris Pain, leader of UKIP on Lincolnshire County Councill?
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Hi,
itg is interesting to note that only aday or so after this website informed readers that C hris pain was no longer under investigation by the police with regard to racist comments on his facebook site that having been suspended whilst the investigation was underway he was now being suspended for an entirely different reason!
This does seem to add much credibility to the MP3 recording of the conversation between the resigned CEO of UKIP Will Gilpin & Chris Pain, the text of which was published on this blog CLICK HERE.
So it seems that UKIP’s leadership have changed their story and original excuse for suspending Chris Pain from his web comments to the later version, which endorses the MP3 comments of Will Gil;pin, and cites a fall out with Nigel Farage’s placeman Steve Crowther!
Can you imagine what a ghastly place britain would be to live in if UKIP ever gained real power – endless posturing and witch hunts as its various petty luminaries vied for attention and status on the gravy train, at the expense of democracy and morality and in denial of ethics and principles!
Little wonder so many of their more odious supporters are too ashamed to use their real names and hide behind anonimity and foolish names to peddle their filth, their racism, their anti homosexuality and their vile prejudices.
In fact although UKIP is more of a centralised cult than a party and Nigel Farage is their only perfgormer of any merit, as shown by his efforts in the EU Parliament where he sings most ably in return for his luxury seat on the gravy tyrain as shown by: CLICK HERE and also HERE
It is unfortunate that so very very few ever watch or listen to Nigel Farage;s more competent speeches and it is clear that UKIP, for all its huff and puff is little more than a one man band when it comes to decision making the centralisation of authoritarian control and the delivery of anything passing for a competent speech.
Imagine how much UKIP could have achieved if it had put a fraction of its energy into silencing its odious and self serving staff and the claque who make such fools of themselves and the party on the internet so damagingly and had for the last 20 years concentrated on training a team of well informed spokesmen to show the benefits for Britain when we Leave-The-EU and seeking to show in every town, city and county council just how every item of consequential policy and expenditure and every petty fogging bit of regulation was a matter controlled without democratic imput of any meaningful degree in the centralised EU bureaucracy!
As it is, due to apauling leadership and a total lack of training, gravitas, a plan, strategy, tactics or even a clear Exit & Survival Strategy to Leave-The_EU – they have due to this a 20 year track record of abject failure in domestic politics and even now as they pander to the lowest common denominator of populism exploiting racism, immigration, xenophobia and anti homosexuality they have still failed to get anywhere near getting an MP elected and have a risible 140 or so elected Councillors out of some 8,000 available seats!
UKIP under its p[resent leadership and structure is beyond any doubt amongst the informed – UNFIT FOR PURPOSE to lead Britain to Leave-The-EU.
One performing monkey, performing mostly in obscurity clearly does little to Leave-The-EU without a competent organ grinder the organ itself lies trashed in the gutter as tyhe higher up the tree the monkey climbs the more you see its @rse – as has been shown by the welter of bad publicity the cult itself has received!
Lincolnshire UKIP councillor Chris Pain removed as group leader
Chris Pain was elected to Lincolnshire County Council in May along with 15 other UKIP councillors
A councillor suspended by UKIP has been removed as leader of the party’s group on Lincolnshire County Council.
Chris Pain said he had been suspended from UKIP because of a “serious issue” between himself and national chairman Steve Crowther.
Nine of Lincolnshire’s UKIP councillors have now signed a letter to the county council’s chief executive saying Mr Pain has been removed from their group.
A national UKIP spokesman would not comment on why he had been suspended.
He said: “Chris Pain has been suspended under the emergency powers of the chairman of UKIP.
“It would be wrong and unfair to say anything more about the case before the committee has heard the evidence against Mr Pain and his defence.”
UKIP gained 16 seats on Lincolnshire County Council in May, causing the Conservatives to lose overall control and form a coalition with the Liberal Democrats and several Independents.
Racism allegations Mr Pain continues to be a councillor for Wainfleet and Burgh, and he told BBC Radio Lincolnshire “there is no way I would desert the voters”.
“I put a complaint against UKIP national chairman Steve Crowther which might be subject of legal action and I can’t discuss that any further at the moment,” he said.
“It’s just a serious issue between myself and Steve Crowther.”
Councillor Colin Mair, who represents Tattershall Castle, has been appointed acting UKIP leader in Lincolnshire.
Mr Pain was investigated by Lincolnshire Police for alleged racist remarks posted on Facebook, but police said on Monday no action would be taken against him.
Tony McArdle, chief executive of Lincolnshire County Council, said: “We have today received notification from a majority of the members of the UKIP group to the effect that Councillor Chris Pain is not now a member of that group and consequently not its leader.
“As from today, Councillor Colin Mair will be acting as leader of the UKIP group.”
An Incisive Analysis of UKIP by AutonomousMinds featuring the meeting at Telford to promote the MEP candidacy of Jill Seymore, who has in the past made it very clear that she would be far out of her depth as an MEP which is almost impossible to disagree with but then again there is no one on the list for the West Midlands who offers any hope or signs of competence – largely in keeping with the rest of The Farage cult’s candidates!!
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Hi,
I found this article a well presented summary of many views which I share:
This should be of concern to every person who wants the UK to leave the EU
On 5th September, UKIP held what it described as its biggest ever rally as 900 people gathered to listen to Nigel Farage and others speak.
The event received a write up in the Shropshire Star, which covered the key points made by the speakers. Those people who have looked or will look at the report in the expectation of seeing some red meat on the subject of withdrawal from the EU and plans for how such an exit can be delivered, can be forgiven for feeling some disappointment. The report shows the EU barely warranted a mention, and when it did it wasn’t Farage talking about it.
Being a curious sort, this prompted me to have a discussion about it with a highly placed source in the party. They confirmed that EU matters were only mentioned in passing, but more revealingly explained that after the event Farage was delighted that the focus on the biggest political issue affecting the UK – membership of the EU and its consequences – was minimal. It wasn’t an accident, it was by design.
While David Cameron talked the talk in imploring his Conservative members to stop ‘banging on about Europe’, Farage is walking the walk by doing just that.
Previous insights provided to me by well placed UKIP sources, one of whom has just landed on the party’s MEP candidate list for next year’s elections, asserted that Farage is more interested in building a rival to the Conservatives in the hope of splitting that party and capturing a segment of it, than pushing for an exit from the EU. The new focus on emulating the targeted campaign approach used by the Liberal Democrats, in order to win a few seats rather than putting resources into all constituencies, confirms their assessments.
But what should cause even more concern for withdrawal realists – who understand leaving the EU while preserving the UK’s commercial interests requires a structured approach where Article 50 is invoked and agreement is reached on the relationship the UK will have with the EU after departure, before the European Communities Act (ECA) is repealed – is my source’s confirmation that Farage sees such a negotation as time consuming and an opportunity for EU meddling. Farage, who has carefully straddled the fence in public by not siding for or against the Article 50 route despite a clear split in his party on the matter, in private advocated the scorched earth approach of leaving first and trying to negotiate something after, which would leave UK commercial interests at serious risk of damage.
This represents a serious threat to an ‘out’ campaign in any future referendum on EU membership. The withdrawalists would come under incessant attack from the business community which would only look kindly on withdrawal if they could be assured their interests would be protected after the UK leaves the EU. The Farage approach does not and cannot give that assurance. In the meantime, Farage will not let UKIP announce its policy and approach for fear it will alienate a substantial number of UKIP members and will see the party exposed to (justified) attack from the Europhiles who will seize on such naive stupidity with alacrity.
What this demonstrates is that, once again, a political party created to achieve a particular end has compromised itself to service internal party maintenance and management. As Norway showed during its referendum campaign on EU membership, a non party political campaign is the only way of ensuring the objectives are not watered down or jettisoned in favour of a party’s interests.
By way of a closing thought, if you think it is ridiculous that an anti EU party such as UKIP could be pulled off to focus on other things at the whim of its leader in this way, then consider for yourself the evidence that Farage is reversing from EU matters as part of his dream of being a British MP and leading a party in Parliament. In the Evening Standard we see Tony Blair getting substantial space to set out yet another FUD-laden argument against withdrawing from the EU. You would think the UKIP leader and by definition the supposed leader of the Eurosceptic movement would be all over this, exposing the misrepresentation, falsehoods and errors in Blair’s and numerous others that have been published in recent weeks and months.
You would think Farage would be demanding a right of reply to set the record straight – or at the very least shotuing loudly that he is being denied a platform. There is still no counter to this prolonged Europhile line of attack in the media, and certainly nothing rebutting it on the UKIP website. But Farage did somehow find time to be quoted at length in the Daily Express on High Speed Rail 2… he didn’t even mention the EU origins of the project in order to create a high speed rail network across the union. I’ll leave it to Farage’s vocal band of supporters to explain how this focus does anything to develop public support for withdrawal from the EU or move us foward on the journey to successfully leaving the union at a time the Europhiles are working the public and winning them over to supporting continued membership.
The implications of this are clear. The Eurosceptic movement is not being helped by UKIP because Farage’s agenda means he has other fish to fry. The campaign is weaker as a result. UKIP should be a standard bearer, it should be the flag ship of the ‘out’ campaign. But under Farage it has relegated itself to the position of day-tripping passenger on a support vessel. Do UKIP’s members realise what’s happening, or do they even care?
16 Responses to “This should be of concern to every person who wants the UK to leave the EU”
That really turns UKIP into a bed-blocker. Far from educating the voting public at large, Farage isn’t even reaching his own members. This is the response of a branch chairman to a question on UKIP’s policy to Art 50:
“My understanding is that Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is designed to prevent the sheep leaving the fold. We must leave on our own terms, even though we know the technocrats will try to make it as difficult as they can”.
I suppose, though, that if this is the level of ignorance in the party, it is better if UKIP keep away from EU issues and leaves them to the grown-ups.
It’s a fork – bank on about the EU and stay on the outside, quieten down on that subject in order to increase your vote and get accused of abandoning your principles. The question is, do you really think Farage has given up Brexit as a goal?
A couple of points. Where is the sense in going quiet on the EU just as the ‘in’ campaign is dominating the debate? And surely the question to ask is if Farage has Brexit as a goal, what is he doing to bring it about? Finding evidence to support his exit credentials is getting harder all the time. I believe he is leaving EU withdrawal behind for personal reasons.
In answer to your question, I think Farage will do anything that helps him realise his ambition. If that means turning UKIP into just another mainstream party to help him into Westminster, then I have no doubt he would do whatever suits him.
The reality of the hustings may have been overlooked in this piece. Connecting with the voter and backing up the EU withdrawal case with other policies that appeal is important and probably necessary to attract votes.
It works like this, “That Nigel Farage who wants the UK to leave the EU, well he talks a lot of sense on HS2 (etc. etc. etc.), so maybe he’s onto something when it comes to Europe”.
Furthermore the complexities of withdrawal, via Article 50 or indeed any other means, will remain opaque until the process of withdrawal begins. No one in Brussels or London ever imagined Article 50 would ever be used in anger. Nobody, whether that be the Commission, Council or indeed UKIP can second guess this one. It is simply uncharted territory.
This is not to say that this issue should not be discussed, and that the possible options, mechanisms and pitfall analysed; but I suggest that for Mr. Farage to publicly raise this issue, at the present juncture, would be both foolish, unnecessary and counter productive.
First we ideally need the settled will of the people to be firmly in favour of withdrawal and for that to be demonstrated democratically and unequivocally. At this point the UK will presumably play its hand (badly or otherwise).
However, today we are not even sure if Lisbon will be politically or even legally the most important Treaty. Indeed if Cameron’s timetable is followed, it does seem possible that by 2018 a fully federalised Eurozone could be in-place (assuming that insolvency and civil unrest hasn’t put paid to the centralist agenda). This may well change the dynamic in Europe so that it is a new Treaty, not Lisbon, that federalists will rally around.
The criticism of Mr. Farage’s strategy is rather harsh, his job is to attract voters and at this stage not to inform them about the technicalities of the possible mechanisms of withdrawal. This is made especially so at this time when even the most prescient would be hard pressed to offer a credible forecast as to how things might actually pan out.
In light of that Farage, and UKIP’s over all approach of weakening the Conservative Party in its Europhile form at least (and of course to a lesser extent the others) and raising UKIP’s profile on EU and non-EU policy areas is working. So much so that even the President of the United States (whilst remaining philosophically a Europhile) raised the Referendum issue on the steps of the White House. It is UKIP’s rise that has forced the issue onto the agenda. So far their strategy not only looks relatively successful, it is also the only democratic game in town.
That does not mean those with more in-depth knowledge should not continue to debate, explore, and advise on the consequences, mechanisms and possible outcomes. Or that UKIp’s approach should not be criticised, as it has been consistently done on this site and at both a credible and intellectually coherent level .
Never-the-less there comes a time, especially as support and electoral success increase, when the politics of analysis and election separate.
The most important thing is votes cast in the direction of the UK’s withdrawal. With those votes comes moral authority, a force that may prove to be more powerful than Article 50, or indeed any other piece of ill thought out EU legislation (for in reality Lisbon was never designed to be a Treaty but a law within which the powers and functions of the EU were re-codified and increased).
It seems not unlikely that if, when and indeed how the UK leaves the EU, will be most influenced by the number of votes UKIP can attract in 2014 and the threat to repeat any success in 2015 and then ultimately on the size of any majority in favour of exit, should an IN/OUT be held and won.
It would seem that without UKIP none of this would be even a faint possibility. I might add that I am not a UKIP member, but it seems to me that you are asking them to jump a relatively distant fence when the electorate are still undecided at the water jump.
I am sure AT is right in all that he (and Richard North similarly) says about and criticises UKIP/Farage. For me, Farage has provided a valuable service in promoting EUscepticism and having brought it or helped to bring it to public attention. The success of UKIP now gives concern to the Conservatives and others and it was Farage with his tub-thumping who largely achieved this. For this I am appreciative.
But that, I know, does not mean he has the ability to lead a mainstream parliamentary party. The difficulty is that we have no alternative at this stage. Just for whom do I vote in the coming European elections and in the subsequent UK GE? None of the main 3 parties is worth considering so it just leaves UKIP or my not voting at all.
If AT or others have any helpful suggestions. my thanks in advance.
However, the view you take depends on how much faith you have in Farage’s initial intent and then steadfastness to remain true to UKIPs primary purpose of leaving he EU.
I think Leo has put more strategic thought into one post than Farage has into one year of UKIP activity.
People don’t seem to grasp that Farage’s priorities are Nigel Farage and money.
Leo’s argument reminds me of the hundreds of comments on Conservative Home arguing Cameron was only pretending to be a social democrat Europhile and that once in power he would suddenly reveal his inner conservative. We all know what happened there. Why suppose Farage has any more depth than Cameron?
Yes, I was thinking about Cameron the supposed eurosceptic wolf in europhile sheep’s clothing, playing his cards close to his chest. He turned out to be a sheep and a lot of us thought he was nothing else from the outset.
Being a political party carries temptations and compromises.
In UKIP’s case it was argued that if they got MEPs they’d ‘go native’ and there’s certainly an argument to be made for that.
In the case of representation at Westminster, especially with no immediate prospect of power, there has to be the temptation to fit in with the social-democratic consensus and occupy the LibDem niche of being a general protest party – and letting the question of leaving the EU fade into the background.
Most UKIP supporters are I fear politically naive so it is not that they don’t care it is that they just simply don’t know or haven’t worked out what makes Nigel tick.
“…For me, Farage has provided a valuable service in promoting EUscepticism and having brought it or helped to bring it to public attention. The success of UKIP now gives concern to the Conservatives and others and it was Farage with his tub-thumping who largely achieved this…..”
Well, you’re not wrong. Farage has, to an extent {promoted] EU-scepticism, but what has he done to advance it?
Can you name a single crowning achievement of any UKIP MEP since 2009?
No, neither can I.
No MPs, some county councillors (unless disgraced and resigned), sabotaged mayoral and London Assembly elections… at what point do you wake up and realise it’s a personality cult?
Thanks for the response. I do not take issue with anything you have said but I still have no answer as to how I should vote in forthcoming elections – who else but UKIP?
I vote for them as by far the least worst remotely credible option, but I don’t believe in them as it were. They’re a political party and while we’re stuck with electing one team or another of dictators, there’s no reason to believe UKIP are immune to the forces which made LibLabCon what they are.
Actually, I don’t even see LibLabCon as elected dictators, more like the current suit worn by the permanent government of civil service, local government, the EU, NGOs, QUANGOs etc., all untouched by elections every five years. The answer I’d say, is some measure of direct democracy where political parties are much reduced in their role, and we’d be far less likely to have the likes of Blair and Cameron taking very unpopular and far-reaching actions on a whim or for completely self-serving reasons.
The other problem we have is the major players in the political party game having a gentlemens’ agreement not to address certain issues of wide concern, and then fighting over a middle-ground which they feel comfortable with. Is it heretical to suggest that UKIP could be drawn into this if they had enough tribal support?
Most (enter political party) supporters are I fear politically naive so it is not that they don’t care it is that they just simply don’t know or haven’t worked out what makes (enter first name of leader) tick.
Admittedly, we do expect far higher standards of UKIP, notionally the outsiders seeking radical change.
Keeping Up With The UKIP Ferrets & The Farage Sack!!!
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. From: mike nattrass [mailto:ukipmep@hotmail.co.uk] Sent: 10 September 2013 09:42 Subject: FW: Chris PainSorry everyone,
Now we have Total Totalitarianism in UKIP. TWO NEC MEMBERS THROWN OUT BY STEVE CROWTHER
Already Doug Denny has been thrown out of the NEC by Steve Crowther because he told the truth about the Gerrymandering of the selection process and flagged up at least 4 UKIP rules which were broken to distort the selection process …. but the UKIP Constitution (which I opposed) allows for “retrospective voting” so there can be no court challenge…… unless you like nailing jelly to the ceiling….. Yes I tried!
Here (see below) we have the next NEC member who refuses to stay silent. There are more keeping their heads down and away from Nigels hit squad ..Crowther/Reeve/Fairweather.
Why do we elect NEC members?….. to be threatened by Crowther/Farage or to represent member’s concerns?
You are being told how to vote for MEP candidates by a system that excludes any distraction away from “The Chosen Ones” … the ones who comply without question. Totally excluding in all regions those who have worked hardest for this party.
Kindly and well respected member Alan Sheath a long time UKIP member and over 80 wanted to make his point at the conference in Telford, he asked permission to hand out information, and was threatened by Jill Seymour with the police! (you can see the emails)
I suggest you look further down your voting list of candidates …e.g. Michael Wrench who has done so much work for UKIP, he has a good heart and gets little credit because he is loyal to freedom of thought. Those who submit to one man’s domination are clearly listed at the top of the papers, they are cronies and cronies of cronies.
If you read what Crowther says in the magazine it means he could have saved most candidates the £500… because he already knew who he would choose.
I will be making a more comprehensive report of the hidden issues, bullying and fiddles made in the name of UKIP later.
Obviously I will be standing at the 2014 MEP elections ….. but I am barred by Crowther/Farage from standing for UKIP to defend my own seat. Yet the UKIP members did not vote against me.
Mike
MIKE NATTRASS MEP
PS I realise that Nigel is the best speaker and a fantastic front man a fantantist performer but not a Leader. I support UKIP policy and as a previous Party Chairman, Deputy Leader and Transport Spokesman I have made some of it. I will however not see UKIP ruined by Totalitarianism, without speaking up…….we beleave in the votes of members, freedom to speak our minds and democracy … the obvious facts now point in a different bullying direction.
WHO INTERVIEWED me? CROWTHER (employee of a fellow candidate) CASSIDY (aged 22 who reports to Crowther as a UKIP employee) and FAIRWEATHER (Nigel’s person and new NEC member) Oh by the way, the NEC thought they agreed that employees would not be interviewing… but we can soon fix that!
Subject: Fwd: Chris Pain
From: chris.ukip@icloud.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:21:19 +0100
To: alanbown@btinternet.com Dear NEC members, I have just received this email after having sent a comprehensive letter covering all of the aspects of my issue earlier today. My deputy leader on the council, was informed by Pete Reeves that I had been thrown out of the party and he was to take over. Has my case been reviewed since my email was sent and a different decision taken. As this will cause serious damage to our party locally and more importantly effect our vote at the ballot box, can you all please address this as a matter of urgency. Regards, Chris Pain Councillor Chris Pain Lincolnshire County Council UKIP Group Leader & Leader of the Opposition 07771 980477 or 07876 505055 cllrc.pain@lincolnshire.gov.uk chris.ukip@btinternet.com www.chrispain.com
I can confirm that Chris Pain has been suspended from membership of UKIP, for two months, as of Friday 6 September, under the UKIP Constitution clause 11.9. The suspension will be confirmed or rescinded at an emergency disciplinary hearing now being arranged by the Party Secretary.
Regards, Steve — Stephen Crowther, Chairman, UK Independence Party Eastacombe House, Heanton, Barnstaple, N. Devon EX31 4DG Phone 01271 813844 Mobile 07775 787579
Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W)
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Ukip-vs-EUkip 
That really turns UKIP into a bed-blocker. Far from educating the voting public at large, Farage isn’t even reaching his own members. This is the response of a branch chairman to a question on UKIP’s policy to Art 50:
“My understanding is that Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is designed to prevent the sheep leaving the fold. We must leave on our own terms, even though we know the technocrats will try to make it as difficult as they can”.
I suppose, though, that if this is the level of ignorance in the party, it is better if UKIP keep away from EU issues and leaves them to the grown-ups.
It’s a fork – bank on about the EU and stay on the outside, quieten down on that subject in order to increase your vote and get accused of abandoning your principles. The question is, do you really think Farage has given up Brexit as a goal?
A couple of points. Where is the sense in going quiet on the EU just as the ‘in’ campaign is dominating the debate? And surely the question to ask is if Farage has Brexit as a goal, what is he doing to bring it about? Finding evidence to support his exit credentials is getting harder all the time. I believe he is leaving EU withdrawal behind for personal reasons.
In answer to your question, I think Farage will do anything that helps him realise his ambition. If that means turning UKIP into just another mainstream party to help him into Westminster, then I have no doubt he would do whatever suits him.
The reality of the hustings may have been overlooked in this piece. Connecting with the voter and backing up the EU withdrawal case with other policies that appeal is important and probably necessary to attract votes.
It works like this, “That Nigel Farage who wants the UK to leave the EU, well he talks a lot of sense on HS2 (etc. etc. etc.), so maybe he’s onto something when it comes to Europe”.
Furthermore the complexities of withdrawal, via Article 50 or indeed any other means, will remain opaque until the process of withdrawal begins. No one in Brussels or London ever imagined Article 50 would ever be used in anger. Nobody, whether that be the Commission, Council or indeed UKIP can second guess this one. It is simply uncharted territory.
This is not to say that this issue should not be discussed, and that the possible options, mechanisms and pitfall analysed; but I suggest that for Mr. Farage to publicly raise this issue, at the present juncture, would be both foolish, unnecessary and counter productive.
First we ideally need the settled will of the people to be firmly in favour of withdrawal and for that to be demonstrated democratically and unequivocally. At this point the UK will presumably play its hand (badly or otherwise).
However, today we are not even sure if Lisbon will be politically or even legally the most important Treaty. Indeed if Cameron’s timetable is followed, it does seem possible that by 2018 a fully federalised Eurozone could be in-place (assuming that insolvency and civil unrest hasn’t put paid to the centralist agenda). This may well change the dynamic in Europe so that it is a new Treaty, not Lisbon, that federalists will rally around.
The criticism of Mr. Farage’s strategy is rather harsh, his job is to attract voters and at this stage not to inform them about the technicalities of the possible mechanisms of withdrawal. This is made especially so at this time when even the most prescient would be hard pressed to offer a credible forecast as to how things might actually pan out.
In light of that Farage, and UKIP’s over all approach of weakening the Conservative Party in its Europhile form at least (and of course to a lesser extent the others) and raising UKIP’s profile on EU and non-EU policy areas is working. So much so that even the President of the United States (whilst remaining philosophically a Europhile) raised the Referendum issue on the steps of the White House. It is UKIP’s rise that has forced the issue onto the agenda. So far their strategy not only looks relatively successful, it is also the only democratic game in town.
That does not mean those with more in-depth knowledge should not continue to debate, explore, and advise on the consequences, mechanisms and possible outcomes. Or that UKIp’s approach should not be criticised, as it has been consistently done on this site and at both a credible and intellectually coherent level .
Never-the-less there comes a time, especially as support and electoral success increase, when the politics of analysis and election separate.
The most important thing is votes cast in the direction of the UK’s withdrawal. With those votes comes moral authority, a force that may prove to be more powerful than Article 50, or indeed any other piece of ill thought out EU legislation (for in reality Lisbon was never designed to be a Treaty but a law within which the powers and functions of the EU were re-codified and increased).
It seems not unlikely that if, when and indeed how the UK leaves the EU, will be most influenced by the number of votes UKIP can attract in 2014 and the threat to repeat any success in 2015 and then ultimately on the size of any majority in favour of exit, should an IN/OUT be held and won.
It would seem that without UKIP none of this would be even a faint possibility. I might add that I am not a UKIP member, but it seems to me that you are asking them to jump a relatively distant fence when the electorate are still undecided at the water jump.
I am sure AT is right in all that he (and Richard North similarly) says about and criticises UKIP/Farage. For me, Farage has provided a valuable service in promoting EUscepticism and having brought it or helped to bring it to public attention. The success of UKIP now gives concern to the Conservatives and others and it was Farage with his tub-thumping who largely achieved this. For this I am appreciative.
But that, I know, does not mean he has the ability to lead a mainstream parliamentary party. The difficulty is that we have no alternative at this stage. Just for whom do I vote in the coming European elections and in the subsequent UK GE? None of the main 3 parties is worth considering so it just leaves UKIP or my not voting at all.
If AT or others have any helpful suggestions. my thanks in advance.
Sorry, I meant “AM”.
LeoSavantt,
Things can be seen that way.
However, the view you take depends on how much faith you have in Farage’s initial intent and then steadfastness to remain true to UKIPs primary purpose of leaving he EU.
I think Leo has put more strategic thought into one post than Farage has into one year of UKIP activity.
People don’t seem to grasp that Farage’s priorities are Nigel Farage and money.
Leo’s argument reminds me of the hundreds of comments on Conservative Home arguing Cameron was only pretending to be a social democrat Europhile and that once in power he would suddenly reveal his inner conservative. We all know what happened there. Why suppose Farage has any more depth than Cameron?
AM,
Yes, I was thinking about Cameron the supposed eurosceptic wolf in europhile sheep’s clothing, playing his cards close to his chest. He turned out to be a sheep and a lot of us thought he was nothing else from the outset.
Being a political party carries temptations and compromises.
In UKIP’s case it was argued that if they got MEPs they’d ‘go native’ and there’s certainly an argument to be made for that.
In the case of representation at Westminster, especially with no immediate prospect of power, there has to be the temptation to fit in with the social-democratic consensus and occupy the LibDem niche of being a general protest party – and letting the question of leaving the EU fade into the background.
Most UKIP supporters are I fear politically naive so it is not that they don’t care it is that they just simply don’t know or haven’t worked out what makes Nigel tick.
@Dufyken
“…For me, Farage has provided a valuable service in promoting EUscepticism and having brought it or helped to bring it to public attention. The success of UKIP now gives concern to the Conservatives and others and it was Farage with his tub-thumping who largely achieved this…..”
Well, you’re not wrong. Farage has, to an extent {promoted] EU-scepticism, but what has he done to advance it?
Can you name a single crowning achievement of any UKIP MEP since 2009?
No, neither can I.
No MPs, some county councillors (unless disgraced and resigned), sabotaged mayoral and London Assembly elections… at what point do you wake up and realise it’s a personality cult?
@Nailer
Thanks for the response. I do not take issue with anything you have said but I still have no answer as to how I should vote in forthcoming elections – who else but UKIP?
@ Dufken
I vote for them as by far the least worst remotely credible option, but I don’t believe in them as it were. They’re a political party and while we’re stuck with electing one team or another of dictators, there’s no reason to believe UKIP are immune to the forces which made LibLabCon what they are.
Actually, I don’t even see LibLabCon as elected dictators, more like the current suit worn by the permanent government of civil service, local government, the EU, NGOs, QUANGOs etc., all untouched by elections every five years. The answer I’d say, is some measure of direct democracy where political parties are much reduced in their role, and we’d be far less likely to have the likes of Blair and Cameron taking very unpopular and far-reaching actions on a whim or for completely self-serving reasons.
The other problem we have is the major players in the political party game having a gentlemens’ agreement not to address certain issues of wide concern, and then fighting over a middle-ground which they feel comfortable with. Is it heretical to suggest that UKIP could be drawn into this if they had enough tribal support?
@Nial Warry
Most (enter political party) supporters are I fear politically naive so it is not that they don’t care it is that they just simply don’t know or haven’t worked out what makes (enter first name of leader) tick.
Admittedly, we do expect far higher standards of UKIP, notionally the outsiders seeking radical change.
Dufyken don’t vote for any of them it only encourages them!!