Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W)
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It is worth considering does UKIP still exist!!
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What binds this axis of anti-UKIP men and women?
Are they remunerated ?
If so by whom ?
Originally Posted by Road_Hog 
Are they anti-UKIP or anti the direction that Farage is taking UKIP in?
Just anti-UKIP,attacking Farage as he is the leader.Any other leader would be similarly attacked
I’m certain they are anti-UKIP. They might have a point or two about Farage, but they are not interested in anti-EU politics. That to me is a dead giveaway.
Originally Posted by ex-member
Do tell us the direction Farage is taking the party in?
Farage is much more interested in the questions put by Mcgough-
who is behind the outrageous attacks on his clear and trasparent leadership methods?
Who is financing them?
Good that you’re still around ex-member. As Farage is also still around things don’t seem to be going too well for your lot.
That Farage is EUkip’s greatest assett I have NEVER denied, nor have I lied to people and implied that he is other than their greatest liability as the media have shown time and again.
I don’t expect you to give up on your anti-UKIP efforts though.
In reply to post 1, the Junius hate blog
recently reproduced a claim that Mr Rodney Atkinson was forced out of the party due to his apparent exposure of Conrad Black as a Bilderberger.
As Mr Lance-Watkins claims for himself much of the credit for stopping Mr Atkinson from becoming UKIP leader a possible source by which Mr Lance-Watkins is remunerated is the Bilderberg group.
I’m certainly not saying that is the case but merely putting the possibility out there.
As for the Junius hate blog
there is very little doubt that one or more of their ‘editors’ is most happily in the pay of the EU.
It was the GLW link I was alluding to.
Some of those you associated with in UK First were and are very close associates of Mr Lance-Watkins
as evidenced by the info and material provided to him during that brief era.
But despite the claimed role of Mr Lance-Watkins in the failure of Mr Atkinson to gain the UKIP leadership you went along with those characters (I should have used the words “type of” in addition to the words used, sorry for not doing so) in that party.
Sunday, 4 September 2011
UKIP should follow Scottish Tories and disband
Today’s Sunday Telegraph story on the above quoting the Scottish Tories likely new leader, Murdo Fraser was the best example of political leadership I can remember. Mr Fraser has looked at the Tory performance in Scotland and come to the rational conclusion supported by the evidence that North of the border the Tories are finished and has the courage to act on his beliefs. I quote from the ST below.Murdo Fraser, who is favourite to become leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party, will announce that he plans to wind up the party if he wins a ballot of members next month.
He would follow disbanding the party by launching a new Right-of-centre party that would contest all Scottish elections — council, Scottish Parliament and Westminster.Mr Fraser, a member of the Scottish Parliament, believes the Conservatives have become a “toxic brand” in Scotland since losing all 11 of their Commons seats in the 1997 Labour landslide.UKIP needs to do the same and recognise its total electoral failure in the only elections that can lead to the UK leaving the EU, the Westminster elections! UKIP is currently the problem in making progress on this core issue and is not and never can be even part of the solution.
Its name in the blogosphere of EUKIP is well merited. Its leadership has been bribed by EU money and flattery into Brussels based EU supporters and much, much worse blocking the development of a real leave the EU party in the UK. It is irretrievably dominated by the same old toxic Tories, Pearson, Gill, Farage etc that the Scots Tory leader elect recognises as an insurmountable barrier to winning MPs in Scotland. And look at UKIP’s latest recruit and star conference speaker, Neil Hamilton! A man who led the way in expenses scandals long before duck houses became fashionable.
Tim Congdon, one of the leaders in the No vote campaign against Farage’s pan Europe party is also down to speak at the UKIP conference sharing a platform with Bloom who is alleged already to have signed up to a Pan Europe party and a Czech EU reformist called Mach whom I have never heard of. Tim’s political compass needs looking at. If he wants out of the EU he should keep well away from these EU, mid European apologists.
UKIP can rid itself of these toxic, unreconstructed old Tories only by disbanding and immediately reforming as broad based centrist anti EU party ie a party that could win Westminster seats like the Greens. This is the best and only contribution EUKIP can make to getting us out of the EU. The people are there to do it. Nikki Sinclaire, Mike Natrass, Trevor Colman and John Bufton. UKIP’s NEC is simply a Farage rubber stamp group of mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed plenty of shit. Batten is politically spineless against Farage and Andreasen is the Monet dream made flesh.
It is down to those 4 MEPs to show some leadership. What have they to lose? Farage will never allow them to go on any UKIP MEP slate again. That is of course the real reason Bannerman jumped ship to the Tories. It had nothing to do with his profound admiration of EU phile boy Dave. As soon as he stood against Farage for the leadership he was toast. He knew that as does anyone who knows Farage. Look at what has happened to the others who have stood against Farage in leadership contests.
Its a pity Tim Congdon lacks a political sense. As one ministers PPS once said to me that its like a sixth sense and if you don’t have it you will never succeed in politics. Del Young has it big time. That is why he had to be marginalised and got rid off. Tim would be better off taking Del’s advice than Batten’s or Steve Allison. Both think they will be allowed onto the UKIP MEP slate in 2014. Knowing Farage, if he is still leader, I would not bet on either Batten or Allison appearing higher than 10, if at all, on any regional MEP slate.
Posted byEric Edmondat03:13
- Greg_L-W. said…
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Hi,
you seem to imply that there is something worth saving in EUkip.
Mike Nattrass, Trevor Colman and Nikki Sinclaire have effectively left EUkip and its corruption behind them.
If you consider the only way to clean-up the party is to dissolve it and reform it immediately – how do YOU believe that this would ensure the removal of the corrupt leadership when quite clearly the members have voted clearly against them and even now it is likely Farage will use the conference to re-sell PEPPs with a back me or sack me gamble, without winning that he personally is of course finished.
The membership have voted resolutely against him and the liars he has gathered around him to support PEPPs on two very clear occasions.
The members also voted resolutely against his AV proposition and his Local Elections were catastrophic.
Politically poor old Tim but Dim lacks the required abilities to lead, Stuart Wheeler has shown he is happy to collude in corruption and has the judgement skills sufficient to have gambled and made a fortune which he has proceeded to loos by £Millions ever since.
Just look at how he behaves and the calliber of people he funds and even in UKIP he knows the NEC are untrustworthy and irrelevant so he ignores them.
EUkip has made itself apparent as no more than a Judas Goat, a claque of Plastic EUroSceptics who are unable to show a single solitary actual achievement that has placed these United Kingdoms closer to Leave-The-EU.
To be fair they have trousered a great deal of money, have helped The EU gain a great deal of credibility and have set out to sabotage numerous initiatives being more interested in their wealth creation, self interest and ensuring they do not upset the cart that delivers their apples.
Who would be worth saving when their ship sinks with their top 100 on.
Please – just a few names would be worth considering for I know of none.
EUkip has for some time now been very much a part of the problem with no place in the solution.
Clearly I have been for many years and still am a resolute supporter of UKIP but clearly I will NOT tolerate corruption and deceit of any kind and I consider the befouled EUkip to be irredeemable – I regret.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.4 September 2011 14:54
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Greg_L-W. said… -
Hi,
Eric you commented on some utterly unknown EU politician speaking at EUkip’s conference.
This shows the extent to which EUkip has bought into The EU project as frankly what Finland, Estonia, Germany, Libya, Germany, Afghanistan or Greece chooses as its method of Governance is absolutely no business of ours.
Please note that Nikki Sinclaire’s You Gov poll clearly showed that 53% of the peoples of these United Kingdoms will, when given the opportunity, vote to Leave-The-EU yet only 30% would vote to remain which is quite incredible minded just howmany aliens have been flooded into Britain to try to tip the balance.
It is interesting also to note that EUkip’s extremist partners in The EU list at least 2 who openly or obliquely gave support to Anders Brevick and today I note Mario Borghezio is still a member of the group for all Farage’s huff and puff, as is Francesco Speroni see:
http://www.efdgroup.eu/the-group.html
suspended for the summer holidays one must assume yet featuring over a week into the new parliament!Will they be speakers to ensure enough utterly irrelevant foreigners speak to qualify for the EU bribes that will pay for the conference and much of the ancilliary costs.
I note also John Gaunt will be attending though his EU Referendum site has not been updated for an age and like Dan Hannan & Glendenning and the othert Judas Goat’s approved Conservative site they have been shown up by the dedication of Nikki Sinclare’s 100K+ signature petition – despite the many efforts of Farage, Bloom, Pearson and others to sabotage her effort and aid The EU and Tories thereby.
Clearly EUkip is no part of the solution with the likes of The Fraudster and abuser Stuart Agnew, The Liar and fraudster Derek Clark and the concatenation of low lifes and liars on the NEC how could EUkip ever be a part of the solution?
EUkip represents no values I would wish to call British.
Indeed EUkip is corrupt and corrupting OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN
Regards,
Greg_L-W.4 September 2011 15:49
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Roger, the main point is we’ve heard it all before. We are past the point of repatriating powers. We don’t believe it anymore. We want out. It’s quite simple.
[…] he has presented the exchanges of recent days on this blog to the readers of his blog. This is how Helmer introduces his reply to AM readers who left comments for him in the Open Letter thread: Sadly, the Eurosceptic movement […]
Sir you show the true arrogance that we the populace have grown to hate, you do not answer points made but as usual use emotive language to dismiss us as a fringe element,
You criticise me — that’s OK. I reply — that’s “arrogant”. Seems I just can’t win — except in elections.
Somebody has to win the lottery as well … and the outcome is about as relevant. But if the ability to stuff your pockets with public dosh, and crow about it is a test of arrogance, you just passed the test.
Sue, if there really is going to be a withdraw isn’t it time to be offering up the argued alternative. My impression is that this fight isn’t as clear cut as you suggest. The democratic process supports the E.U. far more than you might hope. Roger certainly isn’t the enemy, the road blocks are real and cannot be circumvented by any amount of wishful thinking. Getting ourselves out of this euro-black-hole isn’t going to be an overnight velvet revolution, it is going to be a long hard grind.
Mr Helmer, I hope you’re not implying that Eustice & Co are the way forward for the Conservative Party? How many more years would you have us listen to the opinions of focus groups, MEPs and MPs – each saying how much they dislike the EU construct, how it is anti-democratic, how it has undermined our national sovereignty? They seem to think that’s enough and it will keep people happy for a while. Well, it isn’t and it won’t.
Hi,
I have to say that your comments Roger reaffirm my belief that should the UK exit the EU it will be no thanks to the Tory Party.
The main point that Roger makes is actually spot on. We eurosceptics are a divide bunch, rather like those in the Life Of Brian – The Judean Front and the Front of Judea. If only a miracle would occur and we could be brought together into one strong organisation. Today we have several different petitions for a referendum on “In Or Out”. UKIP in particular is famous for the splits which have dogged it more or less from its inception. If all sceptics joined their local Conservative Party, they could have real influence. There are only two parties that can get us out of the EU, and of the two, I still think the Conservatives are the more likely.
If all “eurosceptics” (a fatuous term, as Richard North points out) joined the Monster Raving Looney Party, it would probably have an overall majority in Westminster at the next election.
The problem Derek is the people trying to create a supposedly strong organisation are the likes of Heaton-Harris, who has voted in favour of integrationist Bills in the House.
Despite all your protestations Roger, you have to basically admit that AM is right. You and your fellow ‘europsceptic MEP’s or MP’s have actually achieved NOTHING as far as getting this country out of Europe. Some of your ‘eurosceptic’ colleagues have actually voted FOR further integration with the EU – I mean, just how ‘eurosceptic’ is that.
Your analogy is a good one. It appears that there are many splits and factions in Christendom, but in reality there is only one, which has been fought over since the 1st century. Finally it was clarified in the Reformation period when we were left with one split. Those who accepted the authority of scripture and those who nibbled around the edges of it. Many denominations have differences of opinion over unimportant matters, but come under the one umbrella of those who accept the authority of scripture. That is the real split.
Since 1972 OUT NOW, Total Exit without equivocation, no ands, ifs or buts
To Greg_L_W
Having known Roger for over a decade, it is laughable to suggest that he is anything other than a dedicated, committed and real-deal Euroskeptic. He may not be more Catholic than the Pope, but he’s done a fine job in Brussels for over a decade now. He’s a thorn in the side of the Eurocrats and a major irritant to the jerk-circle of Europhile MEPs who sit in the Brussels chamber. Those folks who genuinely believe that we’re better off out (including me) should use their energies attacking the real targets….there’s enough of them
Dear Mr Helmer,
The substantial fact is that we, the voters, have been given no plebiscite on an EU government. And yet piecemeal our government is being handed over to Brussels.
Ukip-vs-EUkip 
Comment by Joe Thorpe (@JoeThorpe1963) August 31, 2011 @ 9:17 am
“Democracy is a form of government in which all people have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives”
Comment by tonyegghead August 31, 2011 @ 9:39 am
silly fellow – we shoot, bomb, maim and kill people in sovereign foreign Nations to force such a concept upon them.
The are obliged to accept OUR definition of a democracy down the barrel of a gun or be killed.
Britain on the otherhand is denied such a concept as it would overturn the corruption that is managed and controlled by the self serving politicians and their parasites.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 31, 2011 @ 9:49 pm
Comment by Josh O’Nyonsosdh August 31, 2011 @ 9:49 am
http://eyetube.me/play.php?vid=360
Comment by Sue August 31, 2011 @ 12:01 pm
This blog post appears to be nothing more than another ‘tick in the box’, the latest in a long line of gestures that do nothing other than convince your supporters you are ‘sound’ on the EU subject. More people are beginning to ask, to coin a phrase, where’s the beef?
You like to highlight and explain things, so why not post a piece on here explaining to your supporters why you are comfortable with Conservative MPs who claim to be opposed to our EU membership voting in favour of integrationist measures in the House?
Are they just a faction, or are all Tories completely untrustworthy and impotent when it comes to doing what the people they represent want them to do?
Comment by Autonomous Mind August 31, 2011 @ 2:53 pm
You are referring to Roger supporting Chris Heaton-Harris and his initiative to promote an anti-EU group amongst tory MPs. You shot from the hip then without bothering to check your facts – are you now embarrassed by your journalistic failure and doing whatever you can to paper over the cracks?
I have in the past had respect for your blog – but I’m losing that, fast.
What exactly do you suppose Roger can do? It’s a matter of record that Roger has lost the whip in the past for his stance. He is a conscience politician who is not afraid to speak it like it is. But he’s not superman!
What should be obvious to you right now is that Cameron and Osborne do not listen to anybody so why moan at Roger because he hasn’t persuaded them to change their mind? What can he do that you can’t? Why haven’t you as an influential political blogger forced Cameron into an EU referendum? Where, Autonomous Mind, is your beef?
Comment by tonyegghead August 31, 2011 @ 3:24 pm
I expect Roger, as an elected and lavishly remunerated representative with all his democratic legitimacy, to further the wishes of the people who elected him because they want the UK to leave the EU. Instead he is supporting the Whip-inspired initiative of George Eustice and Chris Heaton-Harris – two MPs who do not want the UK to leave the EU, because they cling to the delusion that the EU can be reformed and that we should remain within it and further integrate with it. Does that policy sound familiar to you? It should, it is David Cameron’s.
So, how does Roger’s support for the Eustice / Heaton-Harris agenda square with his public pronouncements about being Better Off Out of the EU? On that we still await a definitive answer.
I make no apology for scrutinising the actions of our MPs and MEPs and comparing them to their pledges in an frank and open manner. If that causes you to lose respect for me or my blog then I shall have to live with the disappointment.
Roger cannot have it both ways. If he supports this new Tory ‘mainstream Eurosceptic’ grouping as he has said he does then he is advocating an approach to the EU that runs counter to the BOO position. Genuine Eurosceptics, those who want the UK to leave the EU, need to know and understand that.
Comment by Autonomous Mind September 1, 2011 @ 5:11 pm
Comment by Roger Helmer MEP August 31, 2011 @ 4:01 pm
http://www.parker-joseph.com/pjcjournal/2011/08/31/esm-treaty-eu-commission-mafia-at-work/
You have to admit, this is corruption of democracy on a massive scale
Comment by Sue August 31, 2011 @ 4:06 pm
although you still boast of your status as a EUrosceptic as tolerated by your corrupt Party in the certain knowledge of your lack of achievement over many years perhaps as a Plastic EUrosceptic acting as a Judas Goat for the Tory pro EU membership stance – in complete variance with its own voters – you would be so good as to provide the URL of the stance of which you boast.
Having not read it clearly you are correct – I read very little of your output as I am well aware, sadly, of how irrelevant and duplicitous you are in the battle to Leave-The-EU. Having achieved absolutely nothing at vast cost in over 12 years as the record shows.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 2, 2011 @ 1:46 pm
Let him know that he will have the core support until then, but at the next election it’s time for heads to roll, a fresh cabinet or, like Sinclaire (who is quite an example of UKIP right now, everyone out for themselves – Farage is especially under the cosh) go it alone and only lend support when it meets your needs.
Conservatism is lost right now, you’re in power (how could you not be) but you’re not at the same time. That cabal of members pushing for a vote are mostly up and coming future front line Tories, but that’s not soon enough, they need as much support as possible and while you are “just” and MEP you could support them in debasing Cameron.
Oh and give my regards to that turncoat Bannerman.
Comment by Tony August 31, 2011 @ 3:29 pm
I am fascinated by the fact that oft times, said public opinion when as forceful as this, turns out to be right.
Let’s face it, is it likely that so many people could be wrong?
It only takes someone to formulate and present a plan for the safe and economically acceptable withdrawal of England (the UK?) from the EU and there would be even fewer dissenters to the idea of a referendum on the subject and fewer people who want to be European.
Comment by Heather Alibakir August 31, 2011 @ 9:14 pm
I wonder howmany remember the ‘trustees’ in Auschwitz – as Jews aiding their captors they survived for as long as they willingly filled and emptied the the ‘showers’ and the incinerators.
Perhaps they were hoping that the SS would have a change of heart in 40 or so years time!
It is now over 40 years since we first heard the mantra that ‘we mustn’t startle the horses’ and ‘we can change the party’.
I wonder howmany others see something of a similarity!
The Tories even came up with the ludicrous slogan:
‘In EUrope but not ruled by Europe’.
I expect many of the ‘trustees’ had their cantors chanting:
‘In the gas chamber but not breathing’, for them!
Perhaps Helmer would care to tell us all EXACTLY what he has achieved in his 12 years as a Judas Goat.
We are all well aware of the very generous bribes and expenses he has received for doing his JOB in those 12 years.
Clearly he has utterly failed to convince EUroRealists, he has duped very few Eurosceptics and it is self evident that he and his cronies have achieved absolutely nothing to Leave-The-EU.
Unable to convince their own side it is hardly surprising they have failed to convince anyone else!
It is our own politicos and their hirelings and parasites in the Kleptocratic QUANGOcracy who are the Looters and OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. August 31, 2011 @ 10:08 pm
You say that many Euro-sceptics do not have a strategy. That is a rather insightful point.
So, what is yours? Do you support an In/Out Referendum? Is failure to provide for one a resigning issue?
At what point will you say no mas on Tory-led EU integration? What measures do you have planned? What strategic alternatives do you have?
From where I type, I suspect the exact same criticism can be leveled at you, but I will await your response(s).
Comment by Dead Dog Bounce September 1, 2011 @ 4:56 pm
And in reply to the GLW — no, Greg, I’m not a Nazi goat. And I think that over the last dozen years I, along with others, have done much to educate the public about the evils of Brussels, so I don’t consider my time or effort wasted.
Comment by Roger Helmer MEP September 2, 2011 @ 3:32 pm
Helmer it is irrefutable that you are dishonest.
Nowhere did I EVER accuse you of being a ‘Nazi’ Goat.
Disgusting as I may find the views of ‘Nazis’ they were at least honourable. They believed something, all be it disgusting, and they acted accordingly.
You clearly do not understand the origins of the nomenclature which I attributed to you which was ‘Judas Goat’ which has absolutely nothing to do with ‘Nazis’.
Perhaps a brief scan of history and you will become aware that the great changes for the better in the ranks of mankind have NEVER been politically led – They have, almost without exception been forced upon the self serving politicians by the wishes, demands and actions of the people.
The morality of the people has almost without exception been the catalyst to overturn the corruption and betrayal of the self enriching politicians.
I and it seems the majority in these United Kingdoms who have not been drugged to apathy or given up and think only of themselves do not share your quite idiotic belief that there is any chance whatever that the congestion of self seekers in westminster of whatever stripe will act honourably in the interests of these United kingdoms and its people and Leave-The-EU it is our own politicians who are OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN for sadly the system is designed to protect the corrupt status quo and in that static state clearly scum rises!
You may duck and weave but ultimately you can not hide from the fact that you have been greatly enriched from the public purse and you have delivered absolutely nothing of consequence – you have not one inch of movement towards the wishes of the electorate to Leave-The_EU.
So far you have duplicitously insulted and tried to defame me and dishonestly misquoted me – I await your next political stunt to avoid answering the questions on this thread and on this topic.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 2, 2011 @ 6:29 pm
Comment by James A. Hutchinson September 1, 2011 @ 10:28 pm
No I am not a Europhile as it happens but neither do I believe that your unionist, royalist and ‘the rich get richer at the poors expense’ capitalist policies are the answer for or England either.
The sooner we extract ourselves from both Evil Unions the better for the future of England and her people.
Comment by englishliberationfront September 1, 2011 @ 11:22 pm
sorry to be picky but 66% is an overwhelming majority in a given group.
52% is a clear majority when that against the 52% is an accurately polled and researched 30% only.
That Governments are elected with a mere 25% or less of the electorate and can be elected in a fair democracy by 1% or even a single vote must be noted.
I would contend your comment to be a strawman argument – as with the idiotic idea of breaking up these United Kingdoms is clearly ill conceived and crass in every respect.
As shown by the very reasons they came together – unlike The EU which is unlawful and founded on a pack of lies, a lack of democracy and an arcane and now failed experiment.
There is no middle way and Britain will Leave-The-EU not if but when – interestingly the politician who leads us out will be long remembered after the snivelling dweebs who betray us and their Judas Goats hidden behind Plastic EUrosceptic claims and efforts to change the meaning to suit their Aesopian agenda of treachery.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 2, 2011 @ 5:58 pm
Comment by Lazarus September 3, 2011 @ 12:00 am
indeed democracy is wonderful – would that we had it in Britain where the poll clearly showed that only 30% of the populace of all parties and none would vote in favour of membership of The EU and 52% said they would actively vote against.
Where 66% of those who actually voted Tory said they would vote to Leave-The-EU.
I trust this helps you to understand the importance of the concept of democracy which we are denied yet which Mr. Cameron has proved happy to slaughter and maim Libyans to POSSIBLY achieve in what was Africas stablest, most literate major Country with its free health service, education for all, sound housing stock and clean water for all with petrol at 14c a GALLON.
All achieved under the rule and guidance of Qaddaffi.
Indeed isn’t democracy a wonderful concept and you might care to consider the economic plight and the choir of castrati at Westminster since we surrendered our democracy and permitted the obscene and arcane failed experiment that is the undemocratic centralised dictatorial EU to rule us directly.
Sadly the Tory Party has permitted a claque of Judas Goats to lead the sheeple into the belief that they are in some way EUrosceptic because they want to be in The EU and tweak it a bit whilst 66% of their electorate wish unequivocally to Leave-the-EU and thus it is clear that those who support The Tories from within and are tolerated are OUR-ENEMY-WITHIN – numerous of them fulfilling the role of Judas Goats as Plastic Pretend EUrosceptic.
They are of course required, and aided by the party, as thus the public may be duped. Thick as many of these Judas Goats are I can not for a moment believe that Roger Helmer, Dan Hannan, Carswell, Chris Heaton-Harris or even ex Open EUrope ex UKIP little George EUstace are so thick they do not know the role they are allowed to take and aid in in return for their bribes and expenses.
Could it be hubris, arrogance and self interest that is the venal motivation for such betrayal of these United k
Kingdoms?
Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Comment by Greg_L-W. September 3, 2011 @ 2:42 am