Ukip-vs-EUkip

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Archive for December 13th, 2008

#198* – THE BRITISH DEMOCRACY FORUM from A 3rd. PARTY

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 13/12/2008

#198* – THE BRITISH DEMOCRACY FORUM from A 3rd. PARTY

Clean EUkip up NOW & make UKIP electable!

Comments on The Democracy Forum owned by Anthony Butcher.

Hi,

Interestingly I was phoned last night by a participant on Anthony Butcher’s British Democracy Forum, who seemed distressed at having meen banned for a week for having the timerity to seek to understand the logic by which I had been banned!

He asked if I would post his comments on the issue on this Blog – which I undertook to do in good faith.

When his material arrived there was far too much detail for this blog and so if you wish to see his submission just Click Here

Regards,
Greg L-W.
01291 – 62 65 62

I SUGGEST – since there is clearly no political party of repute, advocating or campaigning for withdrawal of these United Kingdoms from the EU and restoration of our independent sovereign, democracy, with Justice & the right to self determination in a free country:

Write Upon Your Ballot Paper:

LEAVE THE EU

Posted in EUkip; UKIP; BDF; British Democracy Forum; Anthony Butcher; Brendan Padmore; | Leave a Comment »

#197* – BUTCHER WITH MORE WEASLE WORDS

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 13/12/2008

#197* – BUTCHER WITH MORE WEASLE WORDS

Clean EUkip up NOW & make UKIP electable!

ANTHONY BUTCHER
WITH MORE SELF SERVING WEASLE WORDS
& DISHONEST MISREPRESENTATIONS


—–Original Message—–
From: Anthony Butcher [mailto:contact@politigg.co.uk]
Sent: 12 December 2008 11:25
To: greg.glanceback@btconnect.com
Subject: Re: British Democracy Forum Contact Us Form – Site Feedback

Greg,
thanks for your latest coverage of the issue on your blog.

My pleasure – I have no need to hide my comments and note the number of threads you have permitted dishonestly attacking me on your Forum and your personal dishonesty in providing a platform uncensored for liars and proven liars to publish libels and lies about me.

It’s good to see that rather than send it to me by email you would rather plaster my private
email to you on your blog with a lengthy response and wait for me to find
out from someone else. Nice.

If you wish to be made aware of what I have said on my blog why not put it on RSS to your Forum! It would at least balance the EUkip propaganda, bullying and double posting.

Indeed I would as you have proved biased, dishonest and corrupt – why might I wish to discuss ANYTHING with you in private to later report dishonestly. As happens on your Forum, aided by you.

However, I would like to make a point that you said “I stated ACCURATELY
that Peter Reeve the discredited EUkip Regional Organiser had been reported
to the police for an act of low grade Common Assault “

Which I did and stand by – though it will be noted in a dishonourable act you have the advantage of being able to quote my exact words but have prevented me from access to even read my own comments on your Forum – having blocked access.

What you actually said was:
“bully boy partner the BNP role model Peter Reeve who not content with
dishonesty would seem to wish to use his fists to try to silence the truth
and is currently under investigation for common assault.”

So do you see that as different materially – though I grant you that you have the advantage of a crib sheet, which you have denied me.

Low level common assault is entirely different from using his fists in an
assault. To any average reader what you suggested was that Reeve punched
West.

You will note that is exactly why I called it ‘Common Assault’ NOT ‘assault’.

Which is precisely why when I realised that people were misinterpreting my comment I added further detail to ensure they realised the meaning of ‘Common Assault’ in this context.

Not only that, but you never mentioned ‘low level’ – that is a
qualifier you have added since.

I note you confirm my statement! As does the record to which YOU have access but I do not!

Also, he wasn’t, it would appear, under investigation at all because John West hadn’t been to his local police station at that point.

PURE WEASLE WORDS! You statement is I understand untrue in substance though with a dishonest NEW ‘add on’ to justify your dishonesty.

When I reported the incident I was 100% correct. That you differentiate between the initial report commencing the enquiry and the subsequent visit to a LOCAL police station to make a statement is PURE WEASLE WORDING.

Thus I think that it is rather unfair of you to attack myself and Brendan
while misrepresenting what you actuallly said, when clearly you no longer
agree with your own statement.

Do not dishonestly misrepresent me.

Anthony Butcher YOU & Brendan Padmore dishonestly and deliberately lied – you engineered a way to prevent Free Speech and suppress FACT regarding EUkip being published – thus aiding EUkip’s NEC & Leadership & Farage in suppressing the truth about their irresponsible, incompetent and self interested bully boy tactics.

Further it has been openly admitted that you didn’t care if my statement was true or false – Speaks volumes of your integrity and grasp on morality!

Can we please put an end to this?

Clearly YOU can put an end to your dishonesty and you can apologise on your Forum and ensure Brendan Padmore similarly apologises.

Further in the light of your subsequent dishonesty and your willingness to set up various threads attacking me in public, yet in denial of my right of reply and clearly in support of EUkip & Farage, ensuring suppression of the truth and facts.

Also in view of your long term dishonesty in censuring me yet letting serial liars like Bob Feel Martiniz, Michael McGough, Roger Thomas, Mark Croucher, Douglas Denny, Brendan Padmore etc. defame me and lie.

I look forward to your apology, your reinstatement of me on your Forum and a complete change of attitude from you to acting honourably with some vestages of morality and fair play.

Obviously we are never going to agree,

Then I suggest you withdraw from all forms of public life as clearly you have no understanding of ethics, morality, integrity, freedom of speech etc. whatevver weasle words you may dellusionally use to cover your dishonourable behaviour and your overt support for EUkip, its propaganda, its RSS feeds, and its desire to suppress the truth and try to discredit those messengers openly stating the facts and their opinions if they differ from Farage’s desires to personally be re-elected.

but I have no wish for us to be enemies.

Well CLEARLY YOU know the solution.

Though I do appreciate that as a result of cowardice you have succembed to the bullying of your ‘new friend’ the dishonest Paul NuttAll who lied to you, abused you, invented law, misrepresented fact, went behind your back to your Service Provider – Yet YOU described him as a ‘nice chap’ or some such. He is a liar, a bully and a cheat and YOU have the written evidence – Have you any political nouse or even just a smidgeon of ability when it comes to judgement or integrity!!

Cheers,
Anthony Butcher

Regards,
Greg L-W.
01291 – 62 65 62

I SUGGEST – since there is clearly no political party of repute, advocating or campaigning for withdrawal of these United Kingdoms from the EU and restoration of our independent sovereign, democracy, with Justice & the right to self determination in a free country:

Write Upon Your Ballot Paper:

LEAVE THE EU

Posted in EUkip;UKIP;Anthony Butcher;Brendan Padmore;Peter Reeve;Farage;Paul NuttAll; | Leave a Comment »

#196* – EUkip’s DISCREDITTED MEP Tom WISE COMMENTS

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 13/12/2008

#196* – EUkip’s DISCREDITTED MEP Tom WISE COMMENTS

Clean EUkip up NOW & make UKIP electable!

EUkip’s DISCREDITTED MEP Tom WISE, CURRENTLY OUT ON BAIL, COMMENTS ON ASPECTS OF DECLAN GANLEY on HIS WEB SITE

Hi,

Tom Wise’s researcher has a good point and reminds us all that as Farage was The co Chairman of the Ind.Dem.Group with Bonde until he moved on – thus surely they are BOTH under investigation by OLAF on this issue and as the remaining co Chairman Farage seemingly aware that the money is still being syphoned off – perhaps he is digging an even deeper hole, for himself and EUkip!

Perhaps Farage is keeping the door open to jump ship to Libertas, using Ind.Dem.Group money as his Life Line when EUkip collapses in June, as increasingly seems likely.

Is UKIP funding its own opposition?

UKIP members will have been bitterly disappointed to learn that Libertas will be fielding candidates in the UK in next year’s Euro elections. With the party struggling electorally, and being regularly beaten by the far-right BNP, morale in the branches is at its lowest point.

A high profile, well funded, alternative slate of candidates is the last thing that UKIP needs. Today Declan Ganley, president of Libertas, and Jens Peter Bonde, president of the pan-European EU Democrats (EUD), issued a joint statement concerning the possibility of a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty in Ireland.

It is this alliance that should raise serious questions as to exactly what is going on.

With a number of EUD officials being employed as members of the Independence & Democracy group, of which UKIP is the largest delegation, we need to ask if UKIP is, indirectly, funding its own opponents:
each IND DEM UKIP MEP contributes directly to Ind Dem funds.

During a recent visit to the European Parliament, Mr Ganley was attended to by a number of officials from Ind Dem, and the EUD.

Bonde was, of course, until recently the co-President of Ind Dem The European Parliament is known to have launched an investigation into this misuse of Parliament staff, and not for the first time: Bonde was previously investigated following revelations that his wife’s news agency, EU observer, was employing staff on contracts supplied by Ind Dem.

These were taxpayer funded staff that should have been working for MEPs, not for a private company.

During a lunch with Ganley, Nigel Farage made a strong statement about the credibility of the eurosceptic movement, singling out the Anti-Maastricht Alliance, saying that it was time for something new.

This was seen by many as a prelude to a shift in position away from withdrawal, possibly in concert with Ganley.

Following the Libertas announcement, however, Farage was highly critical of that party, dismissing them as campaigners that are “against the Lisbon Treaty as long as the Irish are”.

Where does UKIP stand now?

The party leader has elevated contrarianism to new heights by seemingly distancing himself from both the old and new eurosceptic movements. If there is a repositioning away from unconditional withdrawal, then he will also distance himself from his own membership.

Regards,
Greg L-W.
01291 – 62 65 62

I SUGGEST – since there is clearly no political party of repute, advocating or campaigning for withdrawal of these United Kingdoms from the EU and restoration of our independent sovereign, democracy, with Justice & the right to self determination in a free country:

Write Upon Your Ballot Paper:

LEAVE THE EU

Posted in EUkip;UKIP; Libertas; Ind.Dem.Group; Tom Wise; Nigel Farage; Declan Ganley; Jens Bonde; | Leave a Comment »

#195* – EUkip’s FINAL DEMISE Could Be Declan GANLEY!

Posted by Greg Lance - Watkins (Greg_L-W) on 13/12/2008

#195* – EUkip’s FINAL DEMISE Could Be Declan GANLEY!

Clean EUkip up NOW & make UKIP electable!

COULD DECLAN GANLEY PROVE TO BE THE FINAL DOWNFALL OF EUkip?

Hi,

EUkip has absolutely no defence against the charge that, by totally failing to actively campaign in Britain against The New Constitution Lisbon Treaty, they have left the door open for this mid range, mid ground Tory styled pro EU Reform Party to steal their ground, steal their clothes and leave them naked and unprepared.

The Abject Failure of EUkip to provide a strong message showing the benefits of leaving The EU, they have diluted their own message – joined the pro EU Reformist Ind.Dem.Group, which is now actively funding EUkip’s own opposition!

The staggering failure of EUkip to hold to their message and capitalise on their achievements leaves them in the embarrassing position that with 12 elected MEPs EUkip has managed to get less positive, good publicity since 2004 than Declan Ganley has managed this week so far!

EUkip’s achoievements since 2004 have been one long self inflicted wound – greatly exacerbated since Farage stole the leadership in a corrupt and sordid mock election.

Declan Ganley In France:
Discours de Declan Ganley, Président de Libertas Mesdames, Messieurs, Chers amis,
You are Europeans as I am a EuropeanI am proud to be an Irishman and a European Indeed, we are all proud to be European.

But when will Brussels have pride and trust in the citizens of Europe ?

Because until they have trust in the citizens of Europe, logically those citizens cannot have trust in them. In the past few days, in the statements and actions of the combined defeated Yes side in both Dublin and Brussels, it is becoming clear to me that it is the determined intention of the unelected, unaccountable Brussels elite and the servile yes men that seek their favour, while failing to fulfill their solemn duty to their own electorates, to categorically reject once again the voice of a sovereign people raised against the antidemocratic draft of the European constitution, or as they now prefer to call it, the Lisbon Treaty.

In Ireland sooner or later, and probably sooner, in a move and using tactics reminiscent of anti-democrats everywhere, there will be a second referendum designed to produce the only result acceptable to Brussels.

Their pre-referendum lying has already begun.

A second referendum for which there is no mandate in Ireland, is not democracy it in fact mocks democracy. (Perhaps we should have a new word for this Brussels phenomenon; it is “re-mockracy” in the making). We are here today from Lyon, Paris, Marseille, La Vendée and from our villages, cities and towns across France and indeed this Union of ours, I say our union, not theirs, not of the unelected, unaccountable elites but OUR European Union, the peoples, the hundreds of millions of individuals that are Europe.

This Union is OURS!

And we the people must be empowered to decide the future of Europe and our role as individuals within it.

To be empowered as an individual, one must have a voice, to have a voice one must have a vote, it is our fundamental right as Europeans to individually, NOT just collectively, but individually to choose our futures and our leaders. As I pointed out to President Sarkozy a few weeks ago : “le Traité de Lisbonne est mort”. According to its own rules, the European Union cannot now ratify this rehashed Constitution.

This, a Constitution already rejected at the ballot box by your own countrymen and women and those of the Netherlands just three short years ago.

And what has changed in those three short years, what ?

The unelected, unaccountable European elites willfully ignored the democratic will of the peoples of France and the Netherlands and now they are doing the same to Ireland. Those elites conspired to change only those elements of the Constitution which would again trigger referendums in member states.

Those elites decided that they know what’s best for all of us and that we do not need to be consulted any further.And now, in Ireland, the quiet men of Brussels seek to crush the final free voice of a people who were the only citizens of Europe to have their voices heard, and most heartbreakingly they conspire and connive with the mediocre so called leaders of those people. To have those leaders betray their own people. Is this really how Brussels proposes to redress the democratic deficit at the heart of the European project?

Is this really how we Europeans will build a strong, sustainable and successful future for the European Union? Is this really how we can turn the most successful peace project of modern times into the most successful economic, democratic and social achievement of the 21st century and beyond?

Is it ?

No !

Exactly how stupid do they think we the people of Europe are?

Why do they fear the almost half a billion citizens of Europe so much? Why do they so despise the people?

Why are they not as proud of those citizens as those citizens are proud of being European?

I am so very proud of the people of Ireland for stopping the Lisbon Treaty in its tracks and for giving our fellow Europeans this opportunity to really think about where we need Europe to go, how we should embrace the future. It is clear that in order to succeed; the European Union must be built from the sovereign citizen up; not from the elite down.

If Europe is to have a new Constitution / Treaty, call it what you will, it must have the legitimacy of the support of its citizens. If it is to gain that legitimacy the citizens of Europe, all of them, must have their say. Such a Constitution / Treaty needs to be upfront and honest in what it seeks to achieve. I accept it must be ambitious, it must be Just…… it must be readable, it must speak to European hearts by showing that it regards and respects them as individuals in whatever communities, cultures, nations, or identities that they hold dear. It must provide for democracy, accountability and transparency at the heart of European governance.

Rule one of a new Fundamental Treaty/Constitution, might be that if it is more than twenty five pages, then the answer is no. Such a Treaty must then be put to the vote in referenda; right across Europe and the people will grant or withhold their approval. Their wishes will be final because it is from the people that all political power and legitimacy devolves. It is an important part of the very essence of our freedom.

If the people say no it’s back to the drawing board, Brussels doesn’t get to keep asking the same stupid question. Here we are in France, a nation whose very name derives from the meaning of freedom, of liberty. France, the eldest daughter of Europe, this great corner of the earth, through the ages. From Gaul, Brittany, Burgundy, Vendee and Normandy, the Gauls, the Franks – the French people – have always lived and breathed that spirit of liberty, of justice and of courage in the face of adversity.

France is Europe’s beating heart.

And France can be the keystone to building Europe’s future.It is here that Europe’s future must be decided and guaranteed for its citizens, for our future generations and for the survival of our civilisation.It has been France’s role through the ages, to rise to the great challenges that faced Europe.

In 1940, a great Frenchman stood alone on a foreign soil and said No to enemies of Liberty. With his great victory, Charles de Gaulle, that noble son of France helped secure the hopes of Western Civilisation and kept a candle burning for those principles which were to underpin European culture for future generations. Principles rooted in our ancient foundations in Greek democracy, the Roman Republic and Judeo-Christian values.

The precious dignity of the individual, the rule of law, the value of hard work and sacrifice, the rejection of slavery of the body and of the mind. And, most importantly of all, the value and power of love and respect for one’s fellow man.

One of many places we can look to see that respect being represented is in the democratic process, where the people are engaged in the decision making process in the most fundamental way. It is that they, the people, who are sovereign and all political power derives from them as individuals, delegated to elected representatives through the ballot box. Democracy, it’s a good idea the French people, in their wisdom, figured that out quite some time ago.

Other parts of the world can rightfully congratulate themselves on their recent preparedness to promote women into positions of power.In France a young woman from Orléans donned her armour for truth, justice, faith and France almost 600 years ago.

The truth is that France is a place where good ideas have existed and been championed for a long, long time.

Like Joan of Arc, like Charles de Gaulle, I believe that for France, and for Europe, our best days still lie ahead of us.Among those many good French ideas was the French people’s courage and foresight in saying No to the European Constitution.

What the unaccountable elite in Brussels has failed to understand as they try to define Europe through ever-growing piles of directives, treaties, rules and regulations is that Treaties are only written on paper.They are not written on the hearts of men and women. That Europe, in the current Brussels variant, has failed to speak to the hearts of Europeans is clear to us all.

But the fact that this failure, if continued is highly likely to result in the overall failure of the European project needs to be shouted from the mountaintops across Europe.

The good news is that it can be saved.It can be saved by opening the windows and letting the light of democracy, transparency and accountability shine into every dark corner of the Brussels establishment. That’s the kind of Europe Schuman and Monnet would have wanted. Indeed that champion of the European Union and great Frenchman, Jean Monnet, pointed out that:
“People only accept change when they are faced with necessity, and only recognise necessity when a crisis is upon them”

With the current Brussels Elite’s denial of democracy their self imposed illegitimacy, their impotence in the face of outside threats, their contempt for the voice of the sovereign individual, the looming possibility of an economic crisis not seen for over half a century. And worst of all our failure as a civilization to make the most important investment and manifestation of all hope, having enough children, we are now reaching that crisis and change is not only necessary but inevitable.

It is inevitable because we must and will rise to these challenges, we can no longer ignore them, they will not be fixed by someone else, they must be grappled with and overcome by this generation, here and now.

In June of next year at the European Parliament elections, the people of France will have their say on the Lisbon Treaty – you have already said No, its time to say No again to the same anti-democratic formula and to demand an accountable, democratic Europe.

Next years European elections can be the referendum that the people of Europe have been denied – there can be a clear choice, candidates that support and will not stop the antidemocratic Lisbon Treaty – and those that will, doing so from a positive pro European perspective championing democratic accountability at the heart of the union. Let France lead again, say No to anti-democracy – Join with us in helping to place France at the heart of the challenge to return Europe to those to whom it really belongs : it’s almost half a billion citizens and their aspirations for their children, grandchildren and our future generations.

Let us step forward together, with courage and confidence and say Good Morning Europe, that this new century belongs to us, to the people of Europe, that once again we have what it takes to lead the world. Let’s invite the world to watch and witness a new European Renaissance, in economy, in industry, in learning, in championing the value of the individual and the liberty of mankind.

Let us take up the mantle here in France and recognize that it falls to all and every single one of us, to this generation, to wake Europe from our slumber and say as Churchill said for European democracy when its flame was almost extinguished “We will not go quietly into the night”.

For this is France and we are the people of Europe, we know where we came from we can and will define a new vision, let us fulfill that destiny, rise to the challenge, say no to the antidemocratic Brussels of the Lisbon Treaty and Yes to a democratic, transparent and accountable Europe that can lead the world to a place worth going to.
Non à la faillite démocratique du traité de Lisbonne, Oui à une Europe des démocraties, transparente, et responsableUne Europe qui illumine et étonne le monde…
Vive la France
Vive l’Irlande
Vive l’Europe

Regards,
Greg L-W.
01291 – 62 65 62

I SUGGEST – since there is clearly no political party of repute, advocating or campaigning for withdrawal of these United Kingdoms from the EU and restoration of our independent sovereign, democracy, with Justice & the right to self determination in a free country:

Write Upon Your Ballot Paper:

LEAVE THE EU

Posted in EUkip; UKIP; Declan Ganley; Nigel Farage; Ind.Dem.Group; | Leave a Comment »